What if I don't run PTO speed?

   / What if I don't run PTO speed? #21  
You NEAVER WANT TO RUN AN ENGINE UNDER A LOAD at 1/2 speed , that is harder on engine than running at recomended PTO speed. You are lugging that engine it will use more fuel and there will be more wear plus the engine will run hotter . just run the engine at the right RPM it will be OK and it won't hurt it. Will hurt it more lugging it than running wide open.
 
   / What if I don't run PTO speed? #22  
I just about always run my mowers at 540 RPM PTO speed. Tractors are designed to run at that speed continously. In my 1987 Ford 2120 (same chassis as New Holland TC 48/55) the engine speed at which 540 PTO RPM occurs is called "Fast Idle". Note the key word "Idle". That is just the speed enineers design tractor engines to run at.

Andy
 
   / What if I don't run PTO speed? #23  
If modern day diesel engines HAD to run at a constant speed to perform well, they wouldn't have variable speed throttles. There'd be a "light switch" style of controlling engine speeds. They perform BEST under maximum load at a given speed, USUALLY in close proximity to rated rpms to provide 540 rpm pto speeds, but variation from that rpm won't cause instantanious self destruction. ;) Best fuel economy is acheived by operating at the rpm's where power output and smooth operation cross paths with the rpms needed to do the job right. I've got a tractor that's been with me for 37 years. I NEVER run it any harder than t NEED to be run. I don't lug it, but I also don't wind it up to "rated rpms" and cruise around with half a load on it. On my newer tractors we use in the mowing business, my operators run at 75% to 80% of "rated speed" when conditions allow. Saves considerable amounts of fuel, in addition to prolonging the life of the tractor. We're talking engines that log upwards of 1500 hours PER YEAR.

I've got a pair of IDENTICAL Massey Ferguson 583's, bought on the same day, used almost side by side. Only difference is, one always has an operator who goes easy on the throttle, and has a light touch. The other has a regular operator who knows one engine speed. WFO. One has 1425 hours. The other (w/WFO operator) has 1410 hours as of last service. The latter has already started to get noticable blow-by, uses more oil, and uses CONSIDERABLY more fuel per hour.
 
   / What if I don't run PTO speed? #24  
If modern day diesel engines HAD to run at a constant speed to perform well, they wouldn't have variable speed throttles. There'd be a "light switch" style of controlling engine speeds. They perform BEST under maximum load at a given speed, USUALLY in close proximity to rated rpms to provide 540 rpm pto speeds, but variation from that rpm won't cause instantanious self destruction. ;) Best fuel economy is acheived by operating at the rpm's where power output and smooth operation cross paths with the rpms needed to do the job right. I've got a tractor that's been with me for 37 years. I NEVER run it any harder than t NEED to be run. I don't lug it, but I also don't wind it up to "rated rpms" and cruise around with half a load on it. On my newer tractors we use in the mowing business, my operators run at 75% to 80% of "rated speed" when conditions allow. Saves considerable amounts of fuel, in addition to prolonging the life of the tractor. We're talking engines that log upwards of 1500 hours PER YEAR.

I've got a pair of IDENTICAL Massey Ferguson 583's, bought on the same day, used almost side by side. Only difference is, one always has an operator who goes easy on the throttle, and has a light touch. The other has a regular operator who knows one engine speed. WFO. One has 1425 hours. The other (w/WFO operator) has 1410 hours as of last service. The latter has already started to get noticable blow-by, uses more oil, and uses CONSIDERABLY more fuel per hour.

Well if THAT'S not the most conclusive evidence in a post I've ever seen I don't know what is!
 
   / What if I don't run PTO speed? #25  
Well if THAT'S not the most conclusive evidence in a post I've ever seen I don't know what is!



It may, or may NOT be inconclusive evidence, but it sure adds creedence to what I've always found to be true. I'm not basing my belief on a few hours of use or just one tractor. The side-by-side comparison of equal identical tractors is only part of the picture. Getting 37 years of dependable, uninterupted service from a single tractor carries just as much weight with me.

Take care of your equipment and it'll take care of you.
 
   / What if I don't run PTO speed?
  • Thread Starter
#26  
in my mind, one running that hard all the time.....well, do the math......

2800rpmsx over a 1400hr life VS 1800rpm over a 1400hr life......but i know oil pressure, temp, etc. are variables too

i'll just do what i always do........run it as hard as i need to....

when i was cutting the field that hadn't been cut for about 2 months......ran the engine pretty easy and even then it didn't labor it....

then, i was cutting some very heavy growth and i HAD to run PTO speed and low range 1st and 2nd gear........i had to run it harder to do the job....

If modern day diesel engines HAD to run at a constant speed to perform well, they wouldn't have variable speed throttles. There'd be a "light switch" style of controlling engine speeds. They perform BEST under maximum load at a given speed, USUALLY in close proximity to rated rpms to provide 540 rpm pto speeds, but variation from that rpm won't cause instantanious self destruction. ;) Best fuel economy is acheived by operating at the rpm's where power output and smooth operation cross paths with the rpms needed to do the job right. I've got a tractor that's been with me for 37 years. I NEVER run it any harder than t NEED to be run. I don't lug it, but I also don't wind it up to "rated rpms" and cruise around with half a load on it. On my newer tractors we use in the mowing business, my operators run at 75% to 80% of "rated speed" when conditions allow. Saves considerable amounts of fuel, in addition to prolonging the life of the tractor. We're talking engines that log upwards of 1500 hours PER YEAR.

I've got a pair of IDENTICAL Massey Ferguson 583's, bought on the same day, used almost side by side. Only difference is, one always has an operator who goes easy on the throttle, and has a light touch. The other has a regular operator who knows one engine speed. WFO. One has 1425 hours. The other (w/WFO operator) has 1410 hours as of last service. The latter has already started to get noticable blow-by, uses more oil, and uses CONSIDERABLY more fuel per hour.
 
   / What if I don't run PTO speed? #27  
If modern day diesel engines HAD to run at a constant speed to perform well, they wouldn't have variable speed throttles. There'd be a "light switch" style of controlling engine speeds. They perform BEST under maximum load at a given speed, USUALLY in close proximity to rated rpms to provide 540 rpm pto speeds, but variation from that rpm won't cause instantanious self destruction. ;) Best fuel economy is acheived by operating at the rpm's where power output and smooth operation cross paths with the rpms needed to do the job right. I've got a tractor that's been with me for 37 years. I NEVER run it any harder than t NEED to be run. I don't lug it, but I also don't wind it up to "rated rpms" and cruise around with half a load on it. On my newer tractors we use in the mowing business, my operators run at 75% to 80% of "rated speed" when conditions allow. Saves considerable amounts of fuel, in addition to prolonging the life of the tractor. We're talking engines that log upwards of 1500 hours PER YEAR.

I've got a pair of IDENTICAL Massey Ferguson 583's, bought on the same day, used almost side by side. Only difference is, one always has an operator who goes easy on the throttle, and has a light touch. The other has a regular operator who knows one engine speed. WFO. One has 1425 hours. The other (w/WFO operator) has 1410 hours as of last service. The latter has already started to get noticable blow-by, uses more oil, and uses CONSIDERABLY more fuel per hour.


Amen and Amen! Running them just hard enough to do a good job is the 'secret' to getting decades of dependable service out of a tractor. People knew that 40 years ago. That's why there are 8Ns, Farmall Cs & Hs, Ford 4000s, and even Johnny Poppers still working today. Many didn't even have a tachometer....what else would the operator have to go by other than the quality of the job being done?
 
   / What if I don't run PTO speed? #28  
If modern day diesel engines HAD to run at a constant speed to perform well, they wouldn't have variable speed throttles. There'd be a "light switch" style of controlling engine speeds. They perform BEST under maximum load at a given speed, USUALLY in close proximity to rated rpms to provide 540 rpm pto speeds, but variation from that rpm won't cause instantanious self destruction. ;) Best fuel economy is acheived by operating at the rpm's where power output and smooth operation cross paths with the rpms needed to do the job right. I've got a tractor that's been with me for 37 years. I NEVER run it any harder than t NEED to be run. I don't lug it, but I also don't wind it up to "rated rpms" and cruise around with half a load on it. On my newer tractors we use in the mowing business, my operators run at 75% to 80% of "rated speed" when conditions allow. Saves considerable amounts of fuel, in addition to prolonging the life of the tractor. We're talking engines that log upwards of 1500 hours PER YEAR.

I've got a pair of IDENTICAL Massey Ferguson 583's, bought on the same day, used almost side by side. Only difference is, one always has an operator who goes easy on the throttle, and has a light touch. The other has a regular operator who knows one engine speed. WFO. One has 1425 hours. The other (w/WFO operator) has 1410 hours as of last service. The latter has already started to get noticable blow-by, uses more oil, and uses CONSIDERABLY more fuel per hour.


Very impressive comparison and good post. After reading the posts I was tempted to run WOT all the time rather than letting RPM's and dfficency cross paths. I'll stick with proper RPM for the job.
I'll add that I have run at lower than rated RPM--but no lugging--for 40 years woth no problems. Knock on wood of course...
Good thread here.
 
   / What if I don't run PTO speed? #29  
I may be more sensetive to the sounds/feel of the machines I operate, but ususally the tractor will tell you. The sweet spot for operating under any load or condition can usually be felt. Its the point where the tractor is working the smoothest. An increase or decrease in fuel makes the engine either wind out or begin to lug, both of which makes the machine vibrate and run a little more choppy. This has been true to nearly every piece of equipment that I've ever run.
 
 
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