What would you do?

[GreatWhitehunter]

I know these threads are all to common, I've even posted similar threads but here it goes. I've got an 04 6.0 PSD in a x cab 250. I still owe money on it and it's out of warranty. I have had issues with it but all were fixed under warranty and none too major. Well now I've got symtoms of the head bolts stretching while towing. I've come to the conclusion I'd rather get rid of it than fix it since the repair cost is out of sight and this may only be the begining with the 6.0. So I've got a few ideas floating around and would like some input. I've got two small children so I'd like the new truck to be a crew cab. I've considered a F-350 v10 because it's a good compromise over the diesel. I'm sure I'll be disapointed in towing compared to the diesel so that has me concerned. I have a small light brush clearing and dirt work biz so I tow mostly on the weekends right now. I was thinking of buying lightly used since I really hate the hit you take after you drive off the lot. I'd really like to get into an 07 GMC 2500hd with an allision and dmax. But I want the miles to be at or under 30k. I need to trade my truck in so a private sale is out. I've been kicking around the idea of getting a medium duty truck cheap and then buying a 1/2 or suv to tote the family around in. My wifes got a large suv so I'll be driving alone most of the time. I want a truck that will tow any trailer I need to and still be able to be confident that I'm not going to get stuck on the side of the road. I also want the next truck to be long term. We'd like to buy a 5th wheel camper in the next few years once the kids get a little bigger so I want to make sure the truck will be up to the task. I was thinking a F-450 crew cab with a 6.4 would be a great choice but this 6.0 has really made me rethink this. I also don't want to deal with all the emissions BS that's only getting worse. Who new that buying a vehicles would be such a tough decision. So please no brand bashing just some constructive critiszms.

Matt

 

[deerefan]

I know these threads are all to common, I've even posted similar threads but here it goes. I've got an 04 6.0 PSD in a x cab 250. I still owe money on it and it's out of warranty. I have had issues with it but all were fixed under warranty and none too major. Well now I've got symtoms of the head bolts stretching while towing. I've come to the conclusion I'd rather get rid of it than fix it since the repair cost is out of sight and this may only be the begining with the 6.0. So I've got a few ideas floating around and would like some input. I've got two small children so I'd like the new truck to be a crew cab. I've considered a F-350 v10 because it's a good compromise over the diesel. I'm sure I'll be disapointed in towing compared to the diesel so that has me concerned. I have a small light brush clearing and dirt work biz so I tow mostly on the weekends right now. I was thinking of buying lightly used since I really hate the hit you take after you drive off the lot. I'd really like to get into an 07 GMC 2500hd with an allision and dmax. But I want the miles to be at or under 30k. I need to trade my truck in so a private sale is out. I've been kicking around the idea of getting a medium duty truck cheap and then buying a 1/2 or suv to tote the family around in. My wifes got a large suv so I'll be driving alone most of the time. I want a truck that will tow any trailer I need to and still be able to be confident that I'm not going to get stuck on the side of the road. I also want the next truck to be long term. We'd like to buy a 5th wheel camper in the next few years once the kids get a little bigger so I want to make sure the truck will be up to the task. I was thinking a F-450 crew cab with a 6.4 would be a great choice but this 6.0 has really made me rethink this. I also don't want to deal with all the emissions BS that's only getting worse. Who new that buying a vehicles would be such a tough decision. So please no brand bashing just some constructive critiszms.

Matt

I did a lot of research here and at other sites before buying an 06 F250 Lariat Fx4 w/ 51,160 miles. It was a lease and thankfully did not have a hitch in the bed so I knew it was not used to tow too much weight. I paid 28000 for the truck and it tows very well. The 05-06 6.0 has proven to be a very durable engine. Most of the comparable chevy's I looked at were a little more expensive. I also did a carfax on the truck and it came back clean. I do not think you can go wrong with a truck from these years. I cannot offer any input on the 6.4. All my friends are still driving either 7.3s of 6.0s.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If you are planning on getting a larger trailer I would stay away from the GM. Its 8,800# gvwr is not much better than a F-150 with the heavy duty payload package. Yes, it does have a diesel but they really lack on payload. Watch the 2500's running down the highway with 5th wheels of any size and they are struggling. Most guys around here have to air bag them to take the load. Same thing I had with my 2005 Gm 3500, it only had 9,900#. My F-250 for example has 10,000# and my F-350 has 11,500#. The GM trucks, just like the Fords and Dodges are not without issues.

If it were me I would either have the heads re studded which is a common thing on early 6.0's or get a 2006 F-350 SRW.

While the V-10 is a good compromise my uncle has one in a F-350 4x4 and gets 12 mpg and 6-8 towing. Same thing with my co worker who has one in a Excursion. Great for the occasional tower but not for a guy who makes a living with it.

Chris

 

[devildog1]

The only thing I can add to the reply's above is, I agree with Chris, have the heads re studded and keep the truck until your financially able to purchase a new or newer one. I too have seen the 2500's on the road with large campers squatting all the way down the road. I do know this because I had two! One with the Dmax Allison and an other with the 8.1 with Allison.Both had great towing, never a problem---except a squatting rear end. That's what lead me to my F350 SRW 4X4 with a 6.0, handles the load of my 34' RV so much better. Good luck with your decision.
DevilDog

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I did a lot of research here and at other sites before buying an 06 F250 Lariat Fx4 w/ 51,160 miles. It was a lease and thankfully did not have a hitch in the bed so I knew it was not used to tow too much weight. I paid 28000 for the truck and it tows very well. The 05-06 6.0 has proven to be a very durable engine. Most of the comparable chevy's I looked at were a little more expensive. I also did a carfax on the truck and it came back clean. I do not think you can go wrong with a truck from these years. I cannot offer any input on the 6.4. All my friends are still driving either 7.3s of 6.0s.

Not to rain on you parade but your fooling youself. The 6.0 is a poorly designed engine. You will end up with issues, it's got too many area's that can fail. If the truck sits alot you'll end up replacing the turbo. The EGR system will give you issues sooner or later. Your gonna get oil leaks, these are just part of the design of the engine. Now I new this going in but the warranty eased my fears. If you tow heavy enough you will stretch the head bolt and require new gaskets and ARP studs. Read the online forums you'll see. This truck has never been chipped or abused. I run full syn oil and maintain it religiously. There is nothing that causes these issues but poor enginering. The catch 22 on these is they need to be worked. But if you work them these head gasket issues eventually will appear. Now I know others here who are die hard ford guys will debate this til the end. Save your breath, I'm not bashing this truck at all. It's got 80k on it an has served me well. But ford should warranty these common issues that are 100% design flaws. The worst part even when the studs stretch under warranty the repairs include the same bolts. So it's going to happen again. If I was able to do an EGR delete and fix the heads myself maybe I'd feel different. But there are just too many common failure items on this model engine period. But this isn't the thread intent could we please talk about the options I've laid out and not the 6.0.

Matt

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

If you are planning on getting a larger trailer I would stay away from the GM. Its 8,800# gvwr is not much better than a F-150 with the heavy duty payload package. Yes, it does have a diesel but they really lack on payload. Watch the 2500's running down the highway with 5th wheels of any size and they are struggling. Most guys around here have to air bag them to take the load. Same thing I had with my 2005 Gm 3500, it only had 9,900#. My F-250 for example has 10,000# and my F-350 has 11,500#. The GM trucks, just like the Fords and Dodges are not without issues.

If it were me I would either have the heads re studded which is a common thing on early 6.0's or get a 2006 F-350 SRW.

While the V-10 is a good compromise my uncle has one in a F-350 4x4 and gets 12 mpg and 6-8 towing. Same thing with my co worker who has one in a Excursion. Great for the occasional tower but not for a guy who makes a living with it.

Chris

The head gasket issue in not just an issue with the early 6.0. The bolts used are the same for all years of the 6.0. Not change at all. Read the post on Ford Truck Enthusist. There were some changes to location of sensors on the early builds but the oil leaks and other common failures are prevelent through all years of production. Not if I had the skills to repair the heads myself in my drive way I'd have no real issue but that's not the case. The cost of the repais is over 3k. After which I've still got all the other problem area's like oil leaks and EGR issues. There are alot of 2500hd pulling huge campers here. I do notice most are using air bags. The gvw point is well take hence my reference to the medium duty trucks.

Matt

 

[dodge man]

How about a Dodge Mega Cab with a Cummings diesel? A good choice in my book. In my opinion, the difference between a diesel and a gas motor is not that great in terms of towing power. Don't get me wrong, I think a diesel is better but the big difference is in economy, not towing power. The gas motor is going to rev alot higher when being worked hard. A lot of people think this is bad for them or that they are being over worked, but thats not the case. Gas motors just have a much higher rpm power band. When I looked at new trucks, I decided I could buy a lot of fuel for the difference in cost between a gas and diesel truck. I guess what I'm saying is if you find a deal on a Ford V10, go for it. That said, I would love to have a turbo Cummings in my driveway.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

If you are planning on getting a larger trailer I would stay away from the GM. Its 8,800# gvwr is not much better than a F-150 with the heavy duty payload package. Yes, it does have a diesel but they really lack on payload. Watch the 2500's running down the highway with 5th wheels of any size and they are struggling. Most guys around here have to air bag them to take the load. Same thing I had with my 2005 Gm 3500, it only had 9,900#. My F-250 for example has 10,000# and my F-350 has 11,500#. The GM trucks, just like the Fords and Dodges are not without issues.

If it were me I would either have the heads re studded which is a common thing on early 6.0's or get a 2006 F-350 SRW.

While the V-10 is a good compromise my uncle has one in a F-350 4x4 and gets 12 mpg and 6-8 towing. Same thing with my co worker who has one in a Excursion. Great for the occasional tower but not for a guy who makes a living with it.

Chris

How about a Dodge Mega Cab with a Cummings diesel? A good choice in my book. In my opinion, the difference between a diesel and a gas motor is not that great in terms of towing power. Don't get me wrong, I think a diesel is better but the big difference is in economy, not towing power. The gas motor is going to rev alot higher when being worked hard. A lot of people think this is bad for them or that they are being over worked, but thats not the case. Gas motors just have a much higher rpm power band. When I looked at new trucks, I decided I could buy a lot of fuel for the difference in cost between a gas and diesel truck. I guess what I'm saying is if you find a deal on a Ford V10, go for it. That said, I would love to have a turbo Cummings in my driveway.

If the dodge trannys were better I'd consider it. The overall fit and finish of the dodge leaves alot to be desired. The torque of the diesel is hard to beat. A gas engine in the hills here is not the most enjoyable ride.

Matt

 

[dodge man]

Have you driven a Dodge lately? I'm not saying the fit and finish is better on a Dodge, but it is as good as anybodys. We have Fords and GMC's at work so I do have other trucks to compare to. As far as automatics go, I think all of the big three have had problems at some time in the past, but my understanding is that the newer Dodge trannys are pretty good. I've owned alot of Dodges over the years and never had any problems, but I've never towed with my trucks really hard or often. Keep in mind you aren't happy with your Ford, so that leaves you with a Dodge or GM product as your choices.
And hey, you brought up the idea of a V10 not me, but I don't think its a bad one, unless you are towing every day.

 

[WH401]

How about a Dodge Mega Cab with a Cummings diesel? A good choice in my book. In my opinion, the difference between a diesel and a gas motor is not that great in terms of towing power. Don't get me wrong, I think a diesel is better but the big difference is in economy, not towing power. The gas motor is going to rev alot higher when being worked hard. A lot of people think this is bad for them or that they are being over worked, but thats not the case. Gas motors just have a much higher rpm power band. When I looked at new trucks, I decided I could buy a lot of fuel for the difference in cost between a gas and diesel truck. I guess what I'm saying is if you find a deal on a Ford V10, go for it. That said, I would love to have a turbo Cummings in my driveway.

Not to go off topic, but the difference of a gasser vs a diesel in towing ability is like comparing black to white, theres no comparison. Towing ability comes down to torque, and where it's made. A gasser typically makes peak torque around 4k RPM, which will cause you to lack any kind of off the line power, not to mention hill climbing power, unless your constantly running at that RPM. Today's diesels make peak torque around 1400 RPM, and have the torque at idle what most of today's gassers have at 4k rpm. The diesel isn't going to struggle at all with the weight because it can almost instantaneously make peak torque. Going up a hill, dependent on the size, a diesel most likely isn't going to have to down shift or unlock the torque converter to keep it's speed. In a gasser the transmission will have to unlock the converter, downshift, and flash the RPM's up a few thousands just to stay moving briskly.

As far as RPM's, turning at high RPM's for a diesel is nothing, with the 5.9 Cummins being purpose built to be run 24/7 at redline. Diesels are overbuilt from the start because of their high compression, which also gives them so much of there durability. A gasser on the other hand, compare the cylinder rings on a gasser to that of diesel, or any other part for that matter, the difference is tremendous. Towing 24/7 a gasser would never be able to hang with a diesel, and I don't just mean in performance. Not to mention, what do you think all those RPM's on the gasser are going to do for you fuel economy, I don't even want to think about it. Unloaded I can do 16 - 18, for a 4wd 8k lb truck, with the aerodynamics of brick, that's much better then you be even lucky to get with a 3/4 ton and up gasser. Loaded it depends on the load, I've seen as low as 13 and as high as 15.





As far as Dodge transmissions not being good, that's more of a belief than actual fact. The automatic Dodge has always put behind the Cummins could have used a tighter torque converter, but other then that there pretty stout pieces. Most reliability issues come from pour user input, i. e., flogging it from stop light to stop light, wondering why a stock transmission doesn't hold the extra 200 hp from a chip, or misuse when towing, etc... My 92' has the original a518 in it with 171k, and it spent the first 55k of it's life towing. For those that don't know the a518 is an overdrive equipped version of the 727 with a non-locking torque converter, talk about some heat production. The 48re behind the last generation of the 5.9 is every bit as reliable as it's Ford or Chevy counterpart. The new 6 speed behind the 6.7 Cummins is every bit as good as the Allison, but has the added benefit of a standard exhaust brake.




On the other hand, anything is better than driving a 6.0 Ford, which is the worst monstrosity to ever grace trucks larger than 3/4 tons. Plugging EGR's, grenading turbo's, weak head studs and gaskets, oil leaks, shreading timing chains... the list goes on.