Why an "APP"?

   / Why an "APP"? #11  
I'm 31, not far removed from the "20-something propeller heads" and I don't like it either. My biggest complaints are:
"Simplification" - dumbing down the UI until it's just dumb.
"SAAS" - taking what you used to own and turning it into a subscription service that you'll have to pay for for the rest of your life

I've been installing and supporting accounting software since you were born! LOL! But you are dead on with the "SAAS" stuff. I have a few clients that are still running a 15 year old version of the accounting software. It does everything they need and does it efficiently. The software vendor is pushing everyone to "go to the cloud" for "low monthly payments". The interface on the new software looks cool and sells well to upper management. But, the data entry interfaces are clunky as all get out and the people in the trenches suffer for it so the upper management can get cool "dashboards" on the software. Dumb, dumb, dumb!

I'm actually onsite this week at a company that's been a client of mine since 1995. This is our 4th upgrade in that time. The main accounting person (whose been there a long time!) said "this interface is not very intuitive." We talked about it and I finally had to resort to the old systems joke - "I just said it was an upgrade... I didn't say it was better!" :laughing:
 
   / Why an "APP"? #12  
I've been installing and supporting accounting software since you were born! LOL! But you are dead on with the "SAAS" stuff. I have a few clients that are still running a 15 year old version of the accounting software. It does everything they need and does it efficiently. The software vendor is pushing everyone to "go to the cloud" for "low monthly payments". The interface on the new software looks cool and sells well to upper management. But, the data entry interfaces are clunky as all get out and the people in the trenches suffer for it so the upper management can get cool "dashboards" on the software. Dumb, dumb, dumb!

I'm actually onsite this week at a company that's been a client of mine since 1995. This is our 4th upgrade in that time. The main accounting person (whose been there a long time!) said "this interface is not very intuitive." We talked about it and I finally had to resort to the old systems joke - "I just said it was an upgrade... I didn't say it was better!" :laughing:

Here's an idea for upper management: instead of paying for access to a cloud-connected financial dashboard with snazzy graphs and charts that you don't actually understand (but feel warm & fuzzy that you can look at them from you phone at night as you lay in bed), why don't you have the human accountant who you're already paying, to run a quick report and bring it to your desk and go over the numbers with you? If the human is worth what you're paying, they should be able to quickly & effortlessly generate a report with the specific numbers that you're interested in, and explain them to you in any level of detail that you desire.

It can be challenging to make a coherent argument in opposition to SAAS; I know, because I recently tried. My stepfather was espousing the virtues of his new Office365 account. He says to me "You get the full MS Office suite, an email address, and a TB of cloud storage, all for the price of a couple hundred gigs of cloud storage elsewhere." Yeah, but... where do I start? The deal seems great on the surface, and even below the surface, it probably actually IS a great deal. It's not the Office365 account that I specifically have a problem with. It's the underlying concept; the precedent that they're setting. I know, I know... "slippery slope," it's typically a pretty weak argument, but it's all I've got. They're eroding the notion of ownership. The SAAS concept is the same exact concept weaponized by John Deere to essentially turn people's personally owned (and very costly) physical property into perpetually leased equipment, with dues beholden to JD for eternity. Sure, go ahead and sing your songs of praise to Microsoft now for their benevolent gift that keeps on giving, but I don't want to hear your complaints 10yrs down the road when you're writing your annual subscription check to Ford to keep your cloud-connected ECU license active and keep your paid-off truck running. Don't think it will come to that? It already has. Ask a farmer.
 
   / Why an "APP"? #13  
Here's an idea for upper management: instead of paying for access to a cloud-connected financial dashboard with snazzy graphs and charts that you don't actually understand (but feel warm & fuzzy that you can look at them from you phone at night as you lay in bed), why don't you have the human accountant who you're already paying, to run a quick report and bring it to your desk and go over the numbers with you? If the human is worth what you're paying, they should be able to quickly & effortlessly generate a report with the specific numbers that you're interested in, and explain them to you in any level of detail that you desire.

It can be challenging to make a coherent argument in opposition to SAAS; I know, because I recently tried. My stepfather was espousing the virtues of his new Office365 account. He says to me "You get the full MS Office suite, an email address, and a TB of cloud storage, all for the price of a couple hundred gigs of cloud storage elsewhere." Yeah, but... where do I start? The deal seems great on the surface, and even below the surface, it probably actually IS a great deal. It's not the Office365 account that I specifically have a problem with. It's the underlying concept; the precedent that they're setting. I know, I know... "slippery slope," it's typically a pretty weak argument, but it's all I've got. They're eroding the notion of ownership. The SAAS concept is the same exact concept weaponized by John Deere to essentially turn people's personally owned (and very costly) physical property into perpetually leased equipment, with dues beholden to JD for eternity. Sure, go ahead and sing your songs of praise to Microsoft now for their benevolent gift that keeps on giving, but I don't want to hear your complaints 10yrs down the road when you're writing your annual subscription check to Ford to keep your cloud-connected ECU license active and keep your paid-off truck running. Don't think it will come to that? It already has. Ask a farmer.

If you own your own data, you have to store your own data. Which means you have to own your own data storage system. Which means you have to own your own data storage software and hardware. Which means you're going to have to own your I.T. department, people, locations, etc.... or pay someone to host it for you.

What I experienced at my last job of 30 years was that our parent company had offices in our building. We were our owner's landlord. And we were our owner's I.T. department. They also owned about 25 other companies, our sister companies. So, they had 25 I.T. departments. 25 H.R. departments. 25 advertising departments. 25 accounting departments. 25 buildings. 25 building departments, etc..... you get the picture.

We had enough telephone, server, software, I.T. staff, etc.... to support the entire corporation and all of its child companies. However, they realized (and I agree) that if they housed all of there infrastructure in any one of their child's premises, they could not sell that child company without having to relocate all of that infrastructure and I.T. personnel.

As with most modern corps, they want to be "agile". Which means they want to buy, sell, trade child companies at the drop of a hat, and also be able to relocate themselves at the drop of a hat. To be able to do that, you can't have your I.T. infrastructure in any of your buildings. You have to have it hosted somewhere outside of all of your buildings. So, you rent server farm space, rent software like MS365, gmail, accounting software, telephone systems, etc.... and run it all on virtual servers.

Since nothing resides in your child companies' facilities, you can sell them off, buy new ones, trade them, etc... and not have to worry about any of the old physical way of doing things. Just get them a fast internet connection and off you go.
 
   / Why an "APP"?
  • Thread Starter
#16  
^^^^
For a Luddite like me who still keeps files of paper copies of all of my bills, all that I want to do is check my email. All this other stuff is just extra, and gives more opportunity for somebody to steal somebody's data (I won't use a debit card, because most of my banking is tied in with my checking account; and even still write paper checks.)
 
   / Why an "APP"? #17  
Specifically about the app vs. website interface: Using an app allows them more ability to customize things. They can have a better user interface (can, not always do). They can implement more device-specific integration. They don't have to accommodate a ton of different browsers on different platforms (which forces a lowest-common-denominator choice of features). They can also get more "in your face" with users by sending notifications to the phone and controlling the splash screen of the app.

I don't like the proliferation of apps either, but they do have some merits if they are done right. If they are done wrong they can just make things worse, but that's true with anything anywhere.

Rob
 
   / Why an "APP"? #18  
Specifically about the app vs. website interface: [...] They can implement more device-specific integration. They don't have to accommodate a ton of different browsers on different platforms (which forces a lowest-common-denominator choice of features).

Pardon the contradiction, but I must... contradict. Cross-platform support is one of the strongest arguments for web-based UIs, not against it.

To develop an app, you must develop separate versions for apple, android, & windows devices (nobody ever makes it as far as developing a Linux version). And even within those big 3 categories, you have a myriad of devices and OS versions that the app needs to be tested on. Does it scale properly from a tablet in landscape mode with a given resolution and aspect ratio to a phone in portrait mode with a different aspect ratio and resolution? What about a 4k monitor? And what about that poor fool still running KitKat android on the 2014 tablet that he refuses to replace? Will your app work for him? Only one way to know... There is a LOT of testing which needs to happen in order to develop an app that is supposed to work across multiple platforms.

Web page display on the other hand is more-or-less standardized across all operating systems and devices. People choose browsers based on the bells & whistles available, not based on the way they display web pages. All browsers for the most part, whether you're using Firefox in Linux, Chrome in Android, Safari, Internet Explorer, Edge, or any other browser on any platform on any device, display the same given web page in the same way. 'Cept of course for when the irritating dumbded down "app-feel" mobile version of a web page is forced on you.
 
   / Why an "APP"? #19  
Pardon the contradiction, but I must... contradict. Cross-platform support is one of the strongest arguments for web-based UIs, not against it.

To develop an app, you must develop separate versions for apple, android, & windows devices (nobody ever makes it as far as developing a Linux version). And even within those big 3 categories, you have a myriad of devices and OS versions that the app needs to be tested on. Does it scale properly from a tablet in landscape mode with a given resolution and aspect ratio to a phone in portrait mode with a different aspect ratio and resolution? What about a 4k monitor? And what about that poor fool still running KitKat android on the 2014 tablet that he refuses to replace? Will your app work for him? Only one way to know... There is a LOT of testing which needs to happen in order to develop an app that is supposed to work across multiple platforms.

Web page display on the other hand is more-or-less standardized across all operating systems and devices. People choose browsers based on the bells & whistles available, not based on the way they display web pages. All browsers for the most part, whether you're using Firefox in Linux, Chrome in Android, Safari, Internet Explorer, Edge, or any other browser on any platform on any device, display the same given web page in the same way. 'Cept of course for when the irritating dumbded down "app-feel" mobile version of a web page is forced on you.

You didn't really contradict, you just expanded on what I was saying. Indeed a browser is a way to standardize across platforms. But doing so comes at a cost, in terms of features, which is the fact that you can only take advantage of features and capabilities supported by that cross-platform solution (HTML). I never said developing an app would be cheaper or easier than doing a browser interface. Just that it can result in a more customized and feature-rich interface, if done right. The question of this thread was "Why an app?". That is the why.

I'm not advocating for an app interface. I really hate when they try to make you use an app when a browser interface would suffice because the last thing my phone needs is more apps using more memory and CPU and battery. But the reasons I gave are why some companies pursue it. Do more, control more, track better, influence user more.

Rob
 
   / Why an "APP"? #20  
You didn't really contradict, you just expanded on what I was saying. Indeed a browser is a way to standardize across platforms. But doing so comes at a cost, in terms of features, which is the fact that you can only take advantage of features and capabilities supported by that cross-platform solution (HTML). I never said developing an app would be cheaper or easier than doing a browser interface. Just that it can result in a more customized and feature-rich interface, if done right. The question of this thread was "Why an app?". That is the why.

I'm not advocating for an app interface. I really hate when they try to make you use an app when a browser interface would suffice because the last thing my phone needs is more apps using more memory and CPU and battery. But the reasons I gave are why some companies pursue it. Do more, control more, track better, influence user more.

Rob

Fair enough, point taken.

If someone had told me a few months ago I would be engaged in a stimulating discussion about UI design on a tractor forum I would have laughed.
 
 
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