Zero Turn traction issues

[dnw64]

I bought the entry level Ferris S400 this spring for mowing our fairly hilly 1.5 acre or so "lawn" area.

I love the cut, the speed and the maneuverability, but the traction (negative traction?) going downhill is near ridiculous. The only way to go down our steeper slopes is to start at a crawl and slowly speed up, or you end up skidding/slewing down the hill. And forget about stopping in the middle of even a moderate downgrade and turning to do the next cut.

A few options I've thought of:

• Add some weight - load the tires and/or add wheel weights.
• Chains (seems bizarre to me on grass, but I've seen a few posts suggesting it)
• Simplest yet - lower the air pressure in the tires. TBH I haven't even checked it - maybe it's way over what it's "supposed" to be.
• Get a mmm for our B3030. Not inclined to this route because the cab makes it awkward to get close to the many "things" around the property, plus I'm not crazy about driving a 3000# machine all over our lawn on a regular basis.
• Get a traditional "lawn tractor". Not crazy about this, as I have no idea whether the traction issue is any better, and it will certainly be slower than a zero turn (although it will be my wife mowing, and time is not a big issue for her). However, this is the option my wife would be most apt to pick on her own...

We already have the Ferris, and it's a pretty nicely built machine. I'd rather use it if possible. Forum thoughts?

(FYI, the GC2300 will be going down the road next year, so using a mmm on it is not a realistic option, although I could keep it).

 

[LouNY]

Check your tire pressure,
chains will do an amazing job,
upgrade your tires to a bar style or atv,
add weight to the rear of the machine.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I bought the entry level Ferris S400 this spring for mowing our fairly hilly 1.5 acre or so "lawn" area.

I love the cut, the speed and the maneuverability, but the traction (negative traction?) going downhill is near ridiculous. The only way to go down our steeper slopes is to start at a crawl and slowly speed up, or you end up skidding/slewing down the hill. And forget about stopping in the middle of even a moderate downgrade and turning to do the next cut.

Just got a Husqv zero-turn last week. When it was delivered, the dealer said DO NOT drive straight down a steep hill. Go sideways, and make all your turns UPHILL. If you can't go sideways, back down the hill. Going straight uphill is okay. Apparently the front end lacking any kind of steering, even if you go down at an angle, it will tend to slew around and pull you downhill.

I was VERY surprised by this and not sure I would have bought it if I had known. Thought z-turns were supposed to be so safe on hills.

Very interested in other folks' experience, and any tips.

 

[kf4uda]

Check out this thread that I started. https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...ro-turn-rear-tire-suggestions.html?highlight=

It lead me to get these tires for my mower. Amazon.com: Kenda K472 Bias Tire - 22x11.-1: Automotive

I should have got them sooner.

Also, can you mow your slope from side to side instead of up and down?

 

[dnw64]

Also, can you mow your slope from side to side instead of up and down?

Most of it, I could, but some of it's pretty steep. I feel safer straight up/down than I would sideways. Maybe it's a mental block.

Most of it can be approached by going UPhill, which works fine, but it means extra passes and multiple driving over the same paths, which I'd rather avoid if possible.

 

[4570Man]

I mow everything I can across it. Its much better than up down. ZTRs don’t drive down hills very good. Bar tires help a bunch. This hill is 17 degrees and it’s about the limit of what I can drive straight down when wet without losing control, but it’s no problem sideways.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Just got a Husqv zero-turn last week. When it was delivered, the dealer said DO NOT drive straight down a steep hill. Go sideways, and make all your turns UPHILL. If you can't go sideways, back down the hill. Going straight uphill is okay. Apparently the front end lacking any kind of steering, even if you go down at an angle, it will tend to slew around and pull you downhill.

I was VERY surprised by this and not sure I would have bought it if I had known. Thought z-turns were supposed to be so safe on hills.

Very interested in other folks' experience, and any tips.

My IS700Z Ferris mows quite well side slope, uphill, downhill etc. without any problems of slewing to the side. It will start to slide on a steep hill if you start fast and then try to slow it. The best way to mow a steep hill(30 degrees or so) is to go straight up, then back down to the bottom to get another bite of it. If the grass on my pond dam isn't wet, I can mow side slope on it and it is at least 30 degrees. If it is wet then it will tend to slip sideways at the rear. I am not familiar with the model the OP posted and it may not be as heavy as my mower which weighs about 850 pounds.
Tire pressure is another factor. I run mine at 12-15 PSI on the rears and max pressure on the front.


If you decide to mow up and down on a hill, then go slow, don't let the speed build up, keep it straight in line by applying just slight pressure on the controls to keep it straight and maybe even a bit of back pressure to keep it slow. I sure don't recommend going at an angle on any slope unless there is not other way to mow it.

The other option is to get some bar lug tires for the rear that will give better traction. I had to put those on my older Craftsman to keep it straight on even a slight slope but it weighed much less. 2 young boys picked it up and put it on my trailer when I bought it, you wont do that with my Ferris.

 

[Coyote machine]

I've been through what the OP describes with a Scag Wildcat with 61" velocity deck. Bought a Husky 322T AWD rider, and that's been a great mower, except for the crappy QC of either Husky or Tufftorq, the transaxle manufacturer. I just last week had the 3rd front transaxle installed since new in 2015. First had a palm sized glob of silicone jammed in at the axle shaft from the factory. Second leaked too. Final one, currently ended up costing me about $300 to have it installed, Husky claimed I was 10 days or so past warranty. I said if they had delivered it with a good transaxle I would now be on my second one, not my third, and they would have done it under warranty. So 156 hours = 3 transaxles and associated trips back and forth to remove/replace them. 45 min trip one way to dealer x 6 trips. You decide.

So finally a solution. I looked for AWD mowers and sought out better ZTs hoping they had done some engineering improvements over the years. Sold my Scag to a friend with leveler ground.
Looked at Walker mowers- wicked expensive- like $12-15K!!

Found, by accident, a new style pro grade Cub Cadet. It is a Pro-Z 160 with all wheel steering, AWS, and a steering wheel, vs. lap bars to STEER the front wheels. NO swivel fronts, instead turf like tread and AMAZING hill climbing, turning and traction. Its a completely different feel and result. I can now confidently mow grass on slopes hills and virtually any terrain without fear of rollover or worse.
I got a great deal on it and am now in my second season of use. It has a Kawa 23.5 HP carbed engine and it is quieter than the Kohler they offer on some of their Pro-Z models.
It cuts and blows clippings like a beast, and cuts whatever height one can throw at it.

I'm keeping the Husky for my wife for now. She loves driving it; I hate maintaining it.
The Pro-Z is a pleasure to work with, and it rides well, is comfortable and very sturdily built. I never anticipated owning a CC, but these Pro-Zs are excellent mowers.
I'm finally able to mow anywhere without any concerns beyond basic mower safety one would exercise with any rider or ZT.
I have at least one thread I started when I got the mower. It has more details than this post.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Found, by accident, a new style pro grade Cub Cadet. It is a Pro-Z 160 with all wheel steering, AWS, and a steering wheel, vs. lap bars to STEER the front wheels. NO swivel fronts, instead turf like tread and AMAZING hill climbing, turning and traction. Its a completely different feel and result. I can now confidently mow grass on slopes hills and virtually any terrain without fear of rollover or worse.

Thanks. Ugh. Sounds like I bought the wrong Z-turn.

 

[MultiMow]

I cringe when I hear folks say "hilly" and "bought new [residential/consumer grade] zero turn" in the same paragraph.

To my knowledge, the new Cub Cadet with the steering wheel and linked steering are THE ONLY zero turn I would recommend to a consumer with slopes. The Hustler Raptor does decent, but I still wouldn't recommend it to someone without experience.

I gotta hand it to Ferris with the appearance of the 400... but it only LOOKS like a well balanced ZTR. Function, as you have experienced, is a whole different ball game.

Now that I have my two cents out of the way...

#1- Chains are a quick and cheap upgrade, if your turf isn't fine-bladed grass. If if you have fine-bladed grass, it'll suffer.

#2- If your wife will be doing most of the mowing, and she would prefer a rider... I'd buy a rider. If you want faster mowing times, get the widest deck that won't scalp... that's the cheapest and safest way to reduce mowing time, ESPECIALLY on property with slopes. Riders are safer, more comfortable, more dependable, less expensive to fix, and generally have much better protection for the engine to keep it clean and running longer.

#3- If you're thinking of replacing the mower, and you're dead-set on a zero turn... spend some time looking for a good used commercial grade unit, such as an eXmark Lazer Z, etc. . From what I can tell, the Ferris you just bought has an MSRP of $4,200. $4,000 will buy a nice used commercial unit with a 60" or even 72" deck, that will have plenty of life left for residential use, will handle hills far better than you is400, and but a big dent in mowing times without going faster.

#4- Upgrading the tires will help... but will require careful attention when turning to prevent turf damage. Carlisle's AT101 isn't too bad... but the Kenda brand chevron tread tires are HORRIBLE for turf damage.

#5- if you're looking at getting a rider, here are some tips from my own experience:

A: BRAND ADVICE

John Deere's leave a great finish, but don't handle tall growth grasses very well (timothy, fescue, orchard grass, etc.). If you take vacations, have a busy schedule, or mow tall (over 2" cutting height) I'd avoid them. Older Kubotas (T1870 series, etc.) do AMAZING with taller grasses, handle overgrowth better than anything else I've had, and can be found fairly cheap with low hours (3-400). They also mow short growth fairly clean and level. Older Cub Cadets with shaft drive are some of the most dependable riders ever built, with a decent turning circle... but don't expect to break speed records. The Toro 500 series Wheel Horse mowers are about the best all-around performing riders I know of. They're reasonably fast, cut clean in most conditions/grasses (especially with the 60" fabricated deck and standard high lift blades)... but parts can be expensive. The good news is, you'll rarely need them, as they are well known for their longevity.

B: FRONT MOUNT MOWER

Commercial front mount mowers are simply the safest, most dependable, fastest option away from a zero turn. The Toro Groundsmaster series of front mounts are great on slopes, typically have 72" decks, are available with 4wd, and can be had for less than $4,000. The combination of a front mounted deck and rear steering make for near-ZTR maneuverability and fast cutting time. Stick to the 325-D (diesel), 328-D (diesel), or 345 (gas), or newer 3000 series. Stay away from the other models, as they are hard to find parts for. John Deere has also make some nice front mount mowers over the years. Their F-series is expansive, and great mowers. The 935 is a great unit, if you don't want/need 4wd. Beginning with the 1145 and continuing up through 1400 series, they are available with 4wd... but expect to pay closer to $5k for a nice one. Kubota's F-series front mounts (F2870, etc.)are AMAZING... hard to find a nice one around $4k, but they are out there. Same goes for New Holland's MC (MC22, MC28, etc.) series front mounts.

Hope this helps. Sorry about your purchase... that was just bad sales practice if he didn't warn you about the lack of hillside traction.