Ventrac 3000 versus PT422

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( MR,

The loader mounts or dismounts in 2 minutes or less. The same is true with all other attachments. The loader also has a quick-tach system for the working tools and buckets.

JackIL )</font>


I'm doing something wrong, it take me almost 3 minutes to swap implements if you count the time it takes to connect the mower belt.

 

[tracdoc]

Jack_IL and/or Bob_Skurka

Could either of you post some dollar figures for the true end-user costs of the Ventracs in the 3000 and 4000 series as well as the costs of their basic attachments? PTs price lists are readily available for a comparison. Are the Ventracs discounted at dealerships or are their prices fixed? Do dealers have different mark-ups? It is my understanding that the Ventracs "aples-for-apples" are considerably more expensive.

Also, what are your thoughts on:
*construction features, e.g., the basic tub on the PTs is is 3/16 to 1/2 inch plate steel. The one Ventrac I saw was fabricated from sheet metal, albeit thick, ala 'Bota, JD and the like, but not plate steel.
*hydraulic components, such as pumps, reservoir size, GPM, pressures, etc.
*construction quality of the attachments, and their capacities, e.g., the VersaLoader would appear to have a max lift capacity of 500#, as compared w/ 800# for PT425.

Which Model Ventracs would be the true "apples-to-apples" comparisons with the PT425 and 422, taking the global units into consideration, like true FEL, etc.?

Thanks for your input.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Realistically I cannot answer your question the way you want it answered. I only know the prices of what I bought as I did not get quotes for the larger equipment, and frankly my Ventrac 3000 is a different type of machine than a PT422 (despite many similarities) I believe the primary roles are different, thus an apple to apple comparison of a 3000 to any PT machine is not really fair.

I will say that prices on Ventracs are VERY negotiable, especially if you talk to the dealer about the Steiner brand. It seems that Ventrac & Steiner dealers have a massive rivalry and prices seemed to melt before my eyes as I was asking questions and pointing out features of the competitor brand.

I think a low end Ventrac 4200 might match up to a PT425? A higher powered 4200 might match up to a larger PT unit. But again, there are so many differences that affect comparing them it really needs to be done by setting some rules.

Perhaps define a list of chores in a specific set of circumstances and then compare the two under those cirucmstances for those chores.

Hills and mowing quality and mowing speed were my big concerns. I was NOT concerned about using my Ventrac for "tractoring" type chores so it was easy for me to discount all of the added versitility the PT offers becuase I already own other machines to do those jobs. Dealing with some steep spots, some tight turns, and a high quality mowing job were where I centered my priorities. I strongly suspect that someone with different priorities would have different results depending on their task list.

 

[FOURTEEN]

"" I strongly suspect that someone with different priorities would have different results depending on their task list. ""


So true!! The most important step is to determine what YOUR needs are, then find the machine, or machines, to fill the bill!

The Swiss Army Knife seems like a great idea, but a real knife, sissors, or screw driver is what is really needed for most jobs!! My PT-425 does many jobs for me, but I am so glad that I decided to keep my old Power King for mowing, towing, and visiting!! That said, there is hardly a job, any job, that my first thought isn't: "How can I use the Power Trac to help me??"!!

 

[lowellw2]

Well now I'm going to start all over again, thanks to Bob Skurka playing with a PT422. I've been reading this forum for some time now. I think Moss Road's excellent analysis of his PT425 selection process got me interested in PT's. Bob detailed analysis and the discussions it evoked was excellent. My Kubota B7100, which has gotten heavy duty use since 1997 is getting a little tired or maybe I'm getting tired of it. I got it used from a rental yard and it's a great machine, but I can't put a belly mower on this model since it has a FEL and I don't want to be constantly looking back at a 3-pt mower. I've got about 5 acres of Texas hill country land to mow with lots of trees and another 5 to maintain along with 1/4 mile of drive. Most of my time seems to be spent mowing now, but I need something to move big rocks, maintain the drive and do other landscaping as time and budget allow. Unlike Bob, I'm not looking for the best mowing machine because most of my mowing is reclaimed native grass on rather rough land (rocks seem to grow when it rains). I do like the land to look maintained though, as does the better half. I have a lawn tractor I use to mow now and sometimes put the shredder on the Kubota for the tough tall stuff, but would like to shorten the time and effort expended so I can waste my time some other way.

I've been vacillating between a subcompact tractor w/ a belly mower, a commercial ZTR or a PT (preferably a 422 or 425, but have a 180 budget). A new subcompact would be great, but I'm not sure I would get the time saving. I was settling in toward a SCAG Tiger Cub ZTR for its toughness, speed and maneuverability. I figured it would really cut down the mowing time and I would have trouble breaking it. I could set the cutting height pretty high, put the throttle to the wall and hang on. I would keep the Kubota for the other jobs till it died or I die. Now Bob's evaluation of the PT422's capabilities throws a wrench in the thought process.

I've really liked the PT "swiss army knife" concept with its broad versatility, quick implement change and apparent stability, but, like many, remain concerned about service, if and when needed. I have the tools and can learn enough hydraulics to probably keep everything working, but am hesitant to pull the trigger. My dream package would be a 425, small bucket w/teeth, 60" finish mower, 48" rough mower, post hole unit w/ 6", box blade and mini-hoe. The Kubota and lawn tractor would go to the highest bidder. The 422 would be cost effective and I've toyed with the idea of putting the extra circuit on a 180 for the mini-hoe.

I've been lucky enough to have briefly played on a 425 and a 180 thanks to some owners near Austin, TX. However, I never really mowed or hauled anything or gave them a workout. I guess my major concern remaining is how the implements will hold up, especially the mowers. The Scag has a 7ga. deck with really heavy spindles and 1/4" blades. Rocks really do grow here. Past experience reveals I will hit them, notwithstanding being careful. I know the PT are built heavy, but can anyone opine as to what they feel the durability of the mowers in really tough stuff. Also, I guess I wonder how the auger handles hitting a rock or two. Does it bog, shear, bend or cut through soft limestone.

 

[JackIL]

Bob,

I agree with you completely--there is no way to make an apples-to-apples comparison between these articulated machines. They are simply not made for the same purposes and end users. The only comparison I think could be reasonably made is between Steiner and Ventrac and that is not the topic of discussion here.

One difference I would note is that both Steiner and Ventrac are considerably more expensive than what is listed on the PT website on a horsepower-to-horsepower basis. The main reason is that there are sales representatives and dealers with Steiner and Ventrac as contrasted to direct sales with PT. For me the dealer support issue is a very big factor whereas for others it imight not be.

My experience in buying both Steiner and Ventrac products is that the dealers tend NOT to discount as much as you might expect from JD, Kubota, etc. The most I have ever been able to get was 10% off list. There are so few dealers that they don't have to compete with one another in most locations. On the other hand I am aware of instances where very significant discounts were given when a dealer was liquidating product.

I think it will all come down to a single question for each potential end user. "Do I have a primary need for high quality mowing on slopes of up to 30 degrees with secondary applications in loader and related work, or do I have a primary need for a loader unit that can also mow (but maybe not up to 30 degrees)?

JackIL

 

[johara1]

on the pt mower deck,if anything they make has a weakness it's the mower deck.it looks well built,but that where it stops. the deck has a problem bending or flexing between the spindles.how i found out was the blades that were on it new measured a 1/4 inch larger than the extra set that i got with it.they hit the sides of the deck in heavy grass.also the spindles have a lot to be desired they the cheapest thing, look like they should be on a tractor from kmart. your greasing sealed ball bearings,250 hrs. already replaced! put tubes in the tires or they go flat. the mount that bolts to the deck cracks from the flexing.........heavy duty? i don't think so

 

[blackwell]

We have used a PT 60" mower for more than 10 years to mow a 3 acre lawn and the only thing replaced has been one belt. We keep 3 sets of blades and as soon as one set starts to get dull, it is replaced with a sharp set. Those three sets of blades were purchased with the mower and are still cutting, 10 years latter. Heavy duty , I think so!!


I ask God for all things that I might enjoy life, He gave me life that I might enjoy all things. (unknown)

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

Where do you get replacement blades for the PT mowers? From PT directly or is there an aftermarket replacement that will fit?

 

[MossRoad]

Heavy duty is in the eye of the beholder. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

That is what is weird, inconsistent, odd, strange... can't find a word for it...

Some users here on TBN use these things in everyday, heavy duty, commercial applications with hundreds and hundreds of hours and have little to no problems. Others' machines have problems 'out of the box' so-to-speak.

I use my mower once a week for about 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour April-Oct. That's about 16-20 hours a year. Not much to go by for a durability test. I have noticed that it rattles much more now than it did when I bought it. Most of the noise comes from the gaps between the spacers and the lynch pins on the front caster posts. As for the blades, I ordered spares, but have never put them on. I am still on the originals. This is my third year and they have never been sharpened. So they have about 60 hours on them, I suspect. I think they need sharpening now, as the quality of the cut is dimishing. I can see tearing on the tops of the grass blades insted of a nice trim edge. So I am very pleased with the cut quality and durability of the blades. However, the front tires are a weak point, and having to grease the spindles every 8 hours is annoying. I have a late 60's Simplicity mower deck with sealed bearings that are still working fine after 35+ years. I think they could have done better in that area. They at least could have attached some tubing up through the deck to re-locate the grease zerk to the top of the deck area. That would only add about $30.00 in parts and a little labor. Maybe increase the price of the deck $50.00 for a little operator convenience.

All in all, the commercial users seem pleased with the units. I am pleased with it, but think they could have done better. After three years of ownership I'd still have no hesitation buying it today. Wish I could say the same thing about other purchases that I have made. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif