jimmer2880
Platinum Member
Been using 7014's myself. But, I'll try some 7018ac's. Which is a better Out of Position rod, the 7014, or the 7018ac? Sounds like the 7018ac is a great all-around rod.
Welding Bucket Hooks!
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xlr82v2
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I'd say 7018 is the better all-position rod.
patrick_g
Elite Member
thatguy said:
Brian, The cutting or "contact" surfaces on stone crushers, ripper teeth, dozer blades and such wear better/longer if made of hard material but making the whole blade/thingy out of the hard stuff is not practical or desirable so hardening techniques are used to harden areas that wear. Then when they wear away with use you can use "special" hard surfacing rods to build them back up.
I can't quote any numbers/designations for those rods as I never bought any. I have had various weldors give me a few but I never paid attention to any designation.
If you see some beads of weld run on the cutting edges of dozer blades and such that is probably some hard surfacing rod.
Sorry I can't give good detail as I'm not a pro weldor. If you Google on "hard surface welding rod" you will get lots of info about nitride hardening and tungsten and so forth.
This is something that a fair weldor can do on his cutting edges when they wear away.
I don't think my friend's injury was triggered by the kind of rod he was using and I didn't mean to imply that. I just put some context to the story. Bill Teague, is truly an artist with a welding machine. He made me a neat tool once, a nice pair of pliers with the adjustable head of a 8 inch crescent attached to a shortened handle of the pliers to make a multi-tool that was extremely handy on sailboats, our shared hobby as we both lived on sailboats.
Pat
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xlr82v2
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One thing...
I've been recommending the 7018 electrodes... but don't take it to mean that I think it's the best rod for everything... it isn't. I think it's one of the best all around rods out there though. For example, One disadvantage you will notice with 7018 is difficult restrikes. You can see what I mean about that in the video I posted. With a fresh rod, you'll see that the arc strikes very easily... but on a restrike, you have to crack through the "glass" that forms over the end of the electrode as it cools. On the other hand, 7014, 6013, and 6011 all have relatively easy restrikes. It's just the nature of the beast, characteristics of each type of electrode. There isn't one perfect electrode... that's why they make all the different types... each has it's own little "niche" that it's best for.
To learn lots more about most all welding topics, check out the message boards at Hobart Welders...
Hobart Weld Talk Message board
There's lots of professional weldors that hang out there, and overall it's a great bunch of guys. A great information resource for new weldors. I've been hanging out over there for several years, it's a great source of info.
I've been recommending the 7018 electrodes... but don't take it to mean that I think it's the best rod for everything... it isn't. I think it's one of the best all around rods out there though. For example, One disadvantage you will notice with 7018 is difficult restrikes. You can see what I mean about that in the video I posted. With a fresh rod, you'll see that the arc strikes very easily... but on a restrike, you have to crack through the "glass" that forms over the end of the electrode as it cools. On the other hand, 7014, 6013, and 6011 all have relatively easy restrikes. It's just the nature of the beast, characteristics of each type of electrode. There isn't one perfect electrode... that's why they make all the different types... each has it's own little "niche" that it's best for.
To learn lots more about most all welding topics, check out the message boards at Hobart Welders...
Hobart Weld Talk Message board
There's lots of professional weldors that hang out there, and overall it's a great bunch of guys. A great information resource for new weldors. I've been hanging out over there for several years, it's a great source of info.
3RRL
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Brian,
Excellent advice on those two rod selections.
I use both rods and have steered away from 6013. I like the aggressive digging penetration you get from the 6011. And the 7018AC is pretty easy to weld with too. When I can, I use the 7018AC like on clean material and in my shop, but resort to the 6011 when welding outdoors at camp, OP welds, and in crummy conditions.
Excellent advice on those two rod selections.
I use both rods and have steered away from 6013. I like the aggressive digging penetration you get from the 6011. And the 7018AC is pretty easy to weld with too. When I can, I use the 7018AC like on clean material and in my shop, but resort to the 6011 when welding outdoors at camp, OP welds, and in crummy conditions.
patrick_g
Elite Member
Not indicting anyone because they like pretty welds, I think we all do but I have seen lots of pretty welds that lacked proper penetration. Terrific cosmetics but poor strength.
Usually, given a choice, if you can't make it pretty at least make it strong with sufficient penetration. Of course, ideally you will learn to do both but in my opinion it is a mistake to concentrate first on looks. Try to learn to make a STRONG weld with adequate penetration AND THEN how to do that while leaving a pretty bead behind.
There are more ways to mess up than even I have discovered and I have found lots. There are lots of good welding books and the BIG Lincoln book is to be highly recommended. We often encourage beginners to practice practice practice and practice is good but if you are just practicing doing the same things wrong over and over till they seen normal to you then you are not helping yourself much if at all.
You need to practice/experiment and then get feedback to allow you to improve. I read some in a couple books (not having a coach available) and then practiced on scrap steel purchased for that purpose at a scrap yard. Fairly quickly I learned to get some fairly decent LOOKING welds and then I put them in a big vise and whacked the crap out of them with a sledge. My oh my how the mighty were fallen. I got some feedback on the strength of my welds.
I'm still learning to weld after over 10 years and will NEVER stop improving which is easy when you have so far to go and started out as humbly as I did.
Pat
Usually, given a choice, if you can't make it pretty at least make it strong with sufficient penetration. Of course, ideally you will learn to do both but in my opinion it is a mistake to concentrate first on looks. Try to learn to make a STRONG weld with adequate penetration AND THEN how to do that while leaving a pretty bead behind.
There are more ways to mess up than even I have discovered and I have found lots. There are lots of good welding books and the BIG Lincoln book is to be highly recommended. We often encourage beginners to practice practice practice and practice is good but if you are just practicing doing the same things wrong over and over till they seen normal to you then you are not helping yourself much if at all.
You need to practice/experiment and then get feedback to allow you to improve. I read some in a couple books (not having a coach available) and then practiced on scrap steel purchased for that purpose at a scrap yard. Fairly quickly I learned to get some fairly decent LOOKING welds and then I put them in a big vise and whacked the crap out of them with a sledge. My oh my how the mighty were fallen. I got some feedback on the strength of my welds.
I'm still learning to weld after over 10 years and will NEVER stop improving which is easy when you have so far to go and started out as humbly as I did.
Pat
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xlr82v2
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Patrick,
Excellent point. I knew someone would point that out, as I should have myself in my posts. To someone new, it would sound that I was saying that appearance is everything. Appearance is only secondary. Absoutely, Penetration and Fusion are what's important, especially to a beginner. Appearance comes later.
What you pointed out is especially pertinent to MIG. It is very easy to lay down a beautiful bead with a MIG, and it will have ZERO penetration except at the very beginning of the bead... not even scratch the surface on one or even both of the pieces of metal that you're welding together. You really have to watch it. You have to know what you're looking for to ensure that you're getting good penetration and thus fusion with MIG. SMAW (stick) is not as prone to have this happen as MIG. Pretty much with SMAW, if you pass the arc over, you're going to get at least some penetration.
A pretty bead does not necessarily a good weld make.
Someone with no welding experience is probably going to have a tough time teaching himself/herself how to weld, and make good sound welds. A finding a good teacher/tutor/mentor is the best path to success when it comes to learning how to weld. You do yourself (and whoever else you may weld something for) no favors by going the "I'll teach myself" route. Books can help, and videos showing what to look for are even better, but another live set of eyes watching and guiding and critiqueing you as you go is invaluable.
Excellent point. I knew someone would point that out, as I should have myself in my posts. To someone new, it would sound that I was saying that appearance is everything. Appearance is only secondary. Absoutely, Penetration and Fusion are what's important, especially to a beginner. Appearance comes later.
What you pointed out is especially pertinent to MIG. It is very easy to lay down a beautiful bead with a MIG, and it will have ZERO penetration except at the very beginning of the bead... not even scratch the surface on one or even both of the pieces of metal that you're welding together. You really have to watch it. You have to know what you're looking for to ensure that you're getting good penetration and thus fusion with MIG. SMAW (stick) is not as prone to have this happen as MIG. Pretty much with SMAW, if you pass the arc over, you're going to get at least some penetration.
A pretty bead does not necessarily a good weld make.
Someone with no welding experience is probably going to have a tough time teaching himself/herself how to weld, and make good sound welds. A finding a good teacher/tutor/mentor is the best path to success when it comes to learning how to weld. You do yourself (and whoever else you may weld something for) no favors by going the "I'll teach myself" route. Books can help, and videos showing what to look for are even better, but another live set of eyes watching and guiding and critiqueing you as you go is invaluable.
patrick_g
Elite Member
Yea verily Brian, I made some truly beautiful welds right away first thing when I got my little Lincoln Lunchbox (Weld Pak 100) The only problem was the part about the two pieces of metal falling apart under just a small stress. I do a lot better now. Most of my welds do not come apart, ever.
Pat
Pat
I take a different tack. I've used 6011 and other rods, but find for my welding around the place, 6013 gives me great welds that hold. Most of the stuff I build, I "overengineer" and "overbuild".
I don't have a problem with welds breaking using 6013 and my kids have messed with welding. If they were using 6011, they'd give up. But using 6013, they hang in there.
We keep 5/32 and 1/8 and 1/16 in 6013 and 1/8" 6011 here. Seems to handle anything that needs fixin'..........
ron
I don't have a problem with welds breaking using 6013 and my kids have messed with welding. If they were using 6011, they'd give up. But using 6013, they hang in there.
We keep 5/32 and 1/8 and 1/16 in 6013 and 1/8" 6011 here. Seems to handle anything that needs fixin'..........
ron
3RRL
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Ron, Brian,
Well I must be doing something wrong then.
I find 6013 strikes easily and I run a very nice looking bead with it. However, my 6013 welds lack penetration. It's like it just "lays" on top of the parent material and I am not comfortable that the penetration is sufficient.
My 6011 and 7018AC welds are great, and they look pretty good too. I know I'm getting excellent penetration. You may have seen some of my many projects? I've TIG welded for 30 years on tool steels for plastic injection molds, so I am used to seeing "pooling" and super clean welds. With 6011 and 7018 rods, I can see the pooling and material flowing together but not with 6013.
What am I doing wrong with that 6013 rod? Too many amps or is it not enough amps?
I know I must be doing something wrong or maybe I'm just a ******? On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't complain since I get excellent results with 6011 and 7018?
Well I must be doing something wrong then.
I find 6013 strikes easily and I run a very nice looking bead with it. However, my 6013 welds lack penetration. It's like it just "lays" on top of the parent material and I am not comfortable that the penetration is sufficient.
My 6011 and 7018AC welds are great, and they look pretty good too. I know I'm getting excellent penetration. You may have seen some of my many projects? I've TIG welded for 30 years on tool steels for plastic injection molds, so I am used to seeing "pooling" and super clean welds. With 6011 and 7018 rods, I can see the pooling and material flowing together but not with 6013.
What am I doing wrong with that 6013 rod? Too many amps or is it not enough amps?
I know I must be doing something wrong or maybe I'm just a ******? On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't complain since I get excellent results with 6011 and 7018?