Millermatic 180 vs I-mig 200

[Scooby074]

I'm not worried about. So much so my Everlast PP60 is sitting on top of my Lincoln 255 MIG in my unheated garage. I have no plans on keeping it anywhere else. So why is an Inverter so susceptible to being left outdoors when other electronics are fine? The electronics on my Lincoln have been outside for almost 10 years now with no problems.

Clearly Lincoln feels differently than some here about Inverter tech.

or is somebody going to say that having a rack holding 6 inverters is just for Joe 6 pack and no pro welder would use such a thing. Finally do you think that Lincoln, Miller, or any other large welder mfg has it's own semiconductor fab to make it's own insulated-gate bipolar transistors? Do you understand how Smei-conductors are made and why is much less important as to where it's made but what equipment that's used? Do even know IGBT technology is being used by companies like Toyota in their Hybrid cars and in industrial applications like high speed electric trains?

Did i ever say that Industrial grade inverters wernt any good? Nope. Ive ran some.

Did i say that cheap chinese inverters full of cheap chinese components were crap? Absolutely.

Hopefully the circuit boards in your machine arent held in with cable ties, and the "IGBT's" your boasting about are actually made by a reputable manufacturer like Toshiba as stated on their website "Our ISO certified manufacturing operations are globally based, manufacturing our exclusive U.S. and Canadian models of welders and plasma cutters. These units are manufactured using brand name parts and electronics and have many patented advancements in technology and design" ,and it didnt have cheaper no name components substituted in by companies like "Wisedom" as evidenced here :CR4 - Blog Entry: The Everlast Plasma Cutter That Didn?t Last Where was the much ballyhooed quality control there, when a contract manufacturer can pull a stunt like that, and it not get picked up by EL?


And before anyone jumps on me, that was in Feb 2009, so relatively recent, and worth a read.

Edit: im dropping out of this thread as well. Ive done my part in derailing this thread unfortunately. To the OP, best to search on the welding forums. You might want to search out the companies mentioned in this thread, both good and bad info. If it was me id go for the MM180 (actually id step up to the 211 or preferably the 212 or 252)

 

[crazyal]

First, I don't care if Miller, Lincoln or Everlast is the manufacturer of the inverter welder. My point was, and remains that they all use a pulse width modulator circuit to control high power semiconductors. This circuit does not have the robustness of a more basic transformer setup and will not last as long. :confused2:

This is what I was replying to.

Did i ever say that Industrial grade inverters wernt any good? Nope. Ive ran some.

Did i say that cheap chinese inverters full of cheap chinese components were crap? Absolutely.

Hopefully the circuit boards in your machine arent held in with cable ties, and the "IGBT's" your boasting about are actually made by a reputable manufacturer like Toshiba as stated on their website "Our ISO certified manufacturing operations are globally based, manufacturing our exclusive U.S. and Canadian models of welders and plasma cutters. These units are manufactured using brand name parts and electronics and have many patented advancements in technology and design" ,and it didnt have cheaper no name components substituted in by companies like "Wisedom" as evidenced here :CR4 - Blog Entry: The Everlast Plasma Cutter That Didn?t Last Were was the much ballyhooed quality control there, when a contract manufacturer can pull a stunt like that, and it not get picked up by EL?


And before anyone jumps on me, that was in Feb 2009, so relatively recent, and worth a read.

Do you even know where the MOSFETS in question were made? Wisdom is in South Korea not China. As for the name brand Toshiba products, they have plants in Malaysia, Thailand, and China. So the bad parts weren't chinese yet the good parts likely were.

Show me an American made company that didn't have problems with a product? Has Lincoln or Miller ever had problems? I bet right now Toyota wishes it never bought gas pedals from Indiana based CTS produced in their Ontario plant.

How many bad welders or plasma cutters have made at Everlast's new mfg plant? A plant that I thought Mark said was built to have better control of how their products are built and what parts go into them to avoid another problem such as the one they had.

I respect the fact that you have brand names you will only buy from, so do I. But I'm a realist who understands that when building a product like a welder one buys from various different companies and made in the USA or Canada no longer means everything inside is also made here. I'm also a realist who understands that coil technology is 100 years old and is going to be replaced (just like carbs have been replaced with a better technology, computer controlled injectors).

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

This was the old factory. There were problems and we worked through them. Its common knowledge that most of these companies bought from a company named Chiry, now renamed Rstar. It happened with one manufacturing run of bad Mofsets. Its common knowledge that most importers were buying from Chiry at the time. But that is not the case now and has not been since Jan or so of 09. We have a bunch of these units out there with no problems still and we know because customers call in to order consumables. The actual problem happened in 08, and we were dealing with it for several months. But we had already begun our introduction of the new factory product in late 08 and the new IGBT line, the predecessor to the "Power" line of units. The standards of our new factories are much higher and we have design input. We have brand new units rolling out that have never been seen before or produced before for any other company. We have instituted testing through various real world test facilities where they can be sure of getting abused. We visit the factories multiple times yearly, for announced and unannounced inspections. The factory meets ISO standards, and the products carry CE certification which is accepted almost all over the world, including the US. We will have a company presence in the factory starting on the 4th of Jan and lasting about 3 or more weeks to go over manufacturing, and design upgrades. We have developed distribution in multiple countries, and could not do that if we were having serious issues with the product. No product is perfect mind you, but we do our best to jump on any issue that might arise.

So the question is: how are we honoring warranty on those old units? We are. We have parts, and we have an arrangement with our new factory to refurbish and upgrade these units to honor the warranty for us. They have complete facilities to do so, and build up boards from higher quality parts to fix them. We still swap units when a customer calls from our stockpile, unless it is something he can just plug in and is wanting to do.

Scooby just might want to look closely at the pictures from the link he posted and the link I am posting. See anything suspic...uhh...familiar? Strange huh?
Dr Virago Pete Complete Site

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

With the question about parts and kinds used, I thought I post some pics from a PowerPlasma 60 unit that I have. Pictures and lighting aren't great. I took them in a hurry to get them up.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Here are a few more:

 

[gwdixon]

Here is my contribution from a PP70. Note the beefier air line.

 

[Slowtorque]

Wondering if the Everlast units are also UL (Underwriters Laboratory) listed in addition to having the CE rating (the CE rating is required in Europe but does not carry any weight here in the US). I believe there is a requirement for any mass produced electrical piece of equip to have a nationally recognized testing lab "list" it as approved for use in the US. Thanks

 

[troutsqueezer]

With the question about parts and kinds used, I thought I post some pics from a PowerPlasma 60 unit that I have. Pictures and lighting aren't great. I took them in a hurry to get them up.

Mark, sorry, I think you did yourself a disservice by posting those pics. When I look at them I see very crappy workmanship. Capacitors soldered on top of capacitors, everything looks to be inserted by hand and a lot of hand soldering, areas of flux still on the board (will lead to premature failure). PCB assembly and soldering is one area where "hand made" is not better. This PCB would not be acceptable to any respectable electronics manufacturer/assembler.

I think you've made our case. Sorry about that.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

The units are not Ul, but Ul is not a government organization.

 

[Scooby074]

The units are not Ul, but Ul is not a government organization.

Well what about canada? I see nothing about CSA approval on Everlastwelders.ca.

CSA approval is required on items sold in canada. Since Everlastwelders.ca is in Burlington, why dont we see what the Electrical safety authority has to say about that? Recognized Certification Marks for Electrical Products in Ontario You'll notice CE isnt there. CE is a lower standard than CSA or UL as you know. Plus theres that whole ability to self certify thing too.

I guess not submitting your machines for approval is another way to have lower prices to compete with the big brands that DO meet approval?

troutsqueezer: i have to agree there. If i opened up a PC and saw that.....