Deere to *CLOSE* Welland, Ontario, factory and transfer production ...

[EddieWalker]

While there is some truth that there is more to it then just the unions, they are also a big part of the problem. The companies agreed to the contracts, and have paid to a large degree what was agreed to. What is at the heart of the union issue has nothing to do with competion from overseas, but on a mentality that rules a union barn. If an employee works too hard, or does better then the others, then he will quietly be pulled aside and politely explained to that he's making all his "brothers" look bad. In my experience, it's rare that a person is ever spoken to twice. Unfortenately, those who don't get it, seem to have accidents or issues with management. The only place that I know of that is worse is in the government. Those guys can be brutal.

Eddie

 

[AKfish]

I agree that Union shops are not a "perfect solution" for ensuring that workers receive a liveable wage and benefits. But, they make it "more" likely that that's the case.

And, I have it on pretty good sources that it wasn't Union laborers that caused Enron, WorldCom, Tyco, and (fill in your favorite corporate disaster) to close their doors...

AKfish

 

[rtdiggr]

The jobs aren't being lost, they're being transferred to other plants. The UTV work is going to Wisconsin and the Loader/Cutter work is going to Mexico. Canadian labor is among the most expensive in the world due in part to high taxes of various types. Ford and GM are also slowly getting out of Canada for the same reasons. Deere is looking to maximize returns for shareholders and increase plant utilization by putting four plants worth of work into three (Horicon, Santillo, and Monterrey). Looking at the long term this is a good thing for Deere.

Are you serious? I work at Ford in Oakville we do get paid alittle more than are American counterparts. One reason is our Cost Of Living Allowance this changes with inflation, but every 3 years this gets rolled into our wages. Our taxes are higher up here But our health care is paid for I know it costs Ford roughly $120per vehicle for us Canadian workers, in the states it is in the $1000,s per vehicle because of health care.

It must be nice that the job you do doesn't depend on anyone purchasing something.

I do know that imports are Killing both countries, you don't think that these plants closing affect you but maybe your family or friend or how about a good paying job for your kids, you know maybe the kids that are quite ready to create the new Micro Soft.

I often wonder why the import car co. have garages at the dealer,,,,,,,then i realize they break down too.

Man i could gone on for hours but after my 13 1/2 hrs away from home i am tired.

If the states are so patriotic why then do you the people that drive imports love to support other countries so much.

Shane

 

[rtdiggr]

I agree. Kind of...
I have worked in automotive factories all over the country. Just because a factory is union-ized doesn't necessasarily make it bad. There are some really efficient, well-run union factories out there.

But, sadly, the majority are in-efficient and corrupt. When a guy (or girl) is getting paid $20 ~ $30 per hour to sit and read the newspaper or sleep all day, everyday then there is something seriously wrong with the system.
There was definately a time when unions were a necessity in this country. But now, they are their own worst enemy.
The few unions that are present in the new factories in the South are typicaly not the same unions that have dominated and destroyed the auto industry in the North.

I hope they don't follow the same trend...

I can't speak for the plants you have been in, but if you come into my plant there is no one sleep, we do get to read on our breaks most times we get to read about which plant is closing next.

Keep buying the imports the Asians need our help.

Shane

 

[vsteel]

I can't speak for the plants you have been in, but if you come into my plant there is no one sleep, we do get to read on our breaks most times we get to read about which plant is closing next.

Keep buying the imports the Asians need our help.

Shane

Its good that you guys have a good work ethic. The company I work for has plants around the world. The plant in Idaho and Utah don't have unions (for the most part) and the one in Virginia has strong ones. Need a tool moved in Idaho or Utah? You can have it done in a day, people just go in and do it. In Virginia it can take a month to get through all of the union red tape to get anything done. Don't ask about the overseas Asian plants, they put things up and get things done at a frightening pace.

Sure unions had their place, now they are just a waste in my eyes. The small plumbers union that there is in Idaho they sure never miss their break. Stuff doesn't get done on Friday afternoon. Though I assume they are safe because they always have about 2 guys watching one guy work.

The talk of leveling the playing field is happening. I know for a fact that India and China are working to raise the wage of workers because they don't want their people exploited. Though I do know that some call centers are now leaving India and trying to head to Cambodia because India is getting to expensive. China is also making it harder on foreign companies because some of them are killing the local Chinese businesses.

I don't think that for much longer there are going to be businesses rushing overseas and paying people a quarter a day to work. Things are starting to level out, starting, but its happening. Everyone wants a piece of the pie.

 

[rtdiggr]

I should also say i am NOT for or against a union. I just want a job.

Shane

 

[Phineas7]

I think what's killing GM is not the cost of the workers that are working, but the ones that have retired. It also seems that everytime someone thinks GM will make some money, some plant goes on strike. Do you ever hear of strikes at anybody but GM & Ford?

Interesting how Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Hyundae (sp?) and now Kia and can make a profit manufacturing in the US. There's a Kia plant being built ~4 miles from my house. They will pay a little better than average for the area, but what they won't do is take care of you for the rest of your life.

I know Briggs & Stratton build two plants in the south to get away from the unions. There's a Caterpillar plant in my town thanks to the unions also.

Wages have somewhat stagnated in the software engineering world because of globalization, but not as bad as manufacturing. I work for an engineering/consulting firm, so I know what it's like to compete with them.

 

[mfreund]

I live in eastern Iowa and I am very happy the Timber Jack loggers are being built here instead of Canada. I deliver to the plants in Davenport and Dubuque Iowa and can tell you they are built in Iowa and I am very greatful. I do not like the production of anything going to Mexico (thanks Bill Clinton) but my company hauls a lot to Horicon and I love it!! Sorry Welland, but as someone stated before it is very expensive to do business in Canada. Socialism costs a lot of money.

 

[Scooby074]

Im kinda sick of this misconception that Canada is such an expensive place to do business and the US is so much cheaper. Is it more than Mexico and China, yes, but we treat our workers a little better than they do there and our quality is second to none.

Here's a study that confirms that overall Canada is 9% cheaper to do business in than the US, and is actually the cheapest of the G7 countries! The study is from 2004 but states that the advantage would remain if the Canadian dollar was over 90 cents. KPMG in Canada | Canada Ranks First as Least Costly Place to do Business

And here's a study from 2008 where Canada still ranks 2nd of the G7 with a 0.6% cost advantage over the US. The stronger dollar has hurt some but the advantage is still there overall. http://www.camagazine.com/index.cfm/ci_id/44214/la_id/1.htm

 

[mjncad]

Unions served a valuable purpose when working conditions were unsafe and downright dangerous, and people were getting maimed and killed on the job for lousy wages.

Now the unions have gone from being a help for the worker to a big (not sole) reason companies offshore jobs to third world rat-holes.

Also, my feeling is that a worker who busts his/her hump more than the next guy/gal should be rewarded with better pay and assignments than the worker who puts out less effort. Unions encourage mediocrity.