Gear drive vs hydro

[Soundguy]

As for comments (from others) about the gear heads being elitist; well how does that work? We're the ones forced into buying primitive (and by all accounts useless and dangerous) tractors with few amenities because we don't have the money for a luxurious HST with heated cup holders and an iPod socket. How is it that we're the snobs?

Reminds me of the long division vs calculator argument. Some learn to do the 'primitive' math.. some punch buttons... both get the (hopefully) correct answer.. some of us just like to plug a bit more

soundguy

 

[Modn]

Right, but anyone could guess just the opposite and be equally as likely to be correct. The reason that I say this is because reliability is simply an unknown. Valid reasons why you might see fewer repairs on HST would include a fluid based system to buffer shock loads but it might also include the fact that the vast majority of HST machines are weekend warriors, many of them not much bigger than a lawn tractor, that get very few hours per year and those hours likely spent mowing. Virtually any machine that gets limited use will get limited wear and tear.

Also, up until recently, geared CUTS and Uts probably got heavier use and abuse than comparable sized HSTs. With the decline of geared machines, that's probably not as true now and a geared machine like mine probably gets no more use than the average BX estate tractor.

Valid reasons HST might have more repairs would include more complexity. The converse is true for geared.

But here is the thing. If my clutch goes out, I'll fix it myself and there are a fair number of people here at TBN who could do the same. I dare say there are few if any who are going to go tinkering around in the guts of an HST. Plus, I suspect my clutch will last longer than me. But, being a pessimist, and after going on and on about how great gear tractors are and about how I'm the Zen Clutch Master, karma is bound to step in and mine is bound to burn out next weekend and I'll be posting a step by step pictorial about how I replaced it myself.

But as has been mentioned, there are virtually millions of aged gear machines with thousands of hours running on the original clutch. No matter how you slice it, that's a proven track record.



We're all ears. I'm sure we think we've heard it all by now but a fresh perspective would be a joy to behold.

As for comments (from others) about the gear heads being elitist; well how does that work? We're the ones forced into buying primitive (and by all accounts useless and dangerous) tractors with few amenities because we don't have the money for a luxurious HST with heated cup holders and an iPod socket. How is it that we're the snobs?

I owned a John Deere 2010 High Crop and had to replace a broken piece in the 12 speed tranny, 8th gear if I remember correctly. That was a nightmare and can only hope I never have to get into my HST. Being that geared is not by all means bullet proof, but very effective obviously. HST IMHO has been very well proven over the years. Just look at the many Bobcat or skid steers out there. I have run many of these and can say they get abused daily on a jobsite. They break down, but for what they are put through I can justify some breaks that happen and not necessarily the HST. For the most part they are a very bulletproof design. HST is here to stay for sure and I won't be going back since I bought my first HST and was very sceptical at first. One you own one and work one you really have no idea of what you were missing. But if you are happy with your gears why change? Only reason why I changed was the killer deal I was offered. I had it in my mind to buy the l4400 gear, but things really did work out and my skeptical mind has been definately put at ease.

 

[tallyho8]

We're the ones forced into buying primitive (and by all accounts useless and dangerous) tractors with few amenities because we don't have the money for a luxurious HST with heated cup holders and an iPod socket. How is it that we're the snobs?

Darn, I didn't realize these options were available when I got my L4400HST. Being from the Deep South and prefering ice cold beverages, I don't require the heated cup holder but the iPod socket would be great. Do you know if we can get it later as a dealer installed option?

 

[N80]

Darn, I didn't realize these options were available when I got my L4400HST. Being from the Deep South and prefering ice cold beverages, I don't require the heated cup holder but the iPod socket would be great. Do you know if we can get it later as a dealer installed option?

Well, first of all, try to recognize humor and sarcasm when you see it. Second, the L4400 is one of few basic HSTs available, so it is generally an exception to the rule. I imagine the overwhelming number of HSTs out there are BX's and Grand Ls right?

Plus, my L4400DT does have a cup holder cooler. But for some reason it only works from December through March.

 

[tallyho8]

But here is the thing. If my clutch goes out, I'll fix it myself and there are a fair number of people here at TBN who could do the same. I dare say there are few if any who are going to go tinkering around in the guts of an HST.

This reminds me of exactly what I said when I ordered the standard transmission in my new 1982 Bronco years ago. I had changed many clutches and rebuilt many standard transmissions in my 50s and 60s Fords I used for drag racing. I was awed the first time I saw the innards of an automatic transmission and refused to even think about learning how to fix them.

My love of standards disappeared when the 4 wheel drive Bronco transmission started growling and I could find no mechanic willing to do repairs on it other than the Ford dealer who wanted twice as much as they charge to rebuild automatic transmissions. They all said "you should have gotten an automatic, everyone knows how to fix them and it is much cheaper".

Today, if your automatic goes out, a half-experienced mechanic can just go to Auto Zone and get a cheap rebuilding kit and get it fixed before the mechanic working on a standard can even get the parts.

Once, today's operators learn the mechanics of HSTs, they will realize that they are far easier to repair than a standard.

For me, since I work alone with no help, I sold my last old tractor because the clutch was bad among other things, and I can not split a tractor alone, so I will have to get the repairs done whether I have HST or standard now, but it is my hope and belief that this will not be for many years.

 

[tallyho8]

Well, first of all, try to recognize humor and sarcasm when you see it. Second, the L4400 is one of few basic HSTs available, so it is generally an exception to the rule. I imagine the overwhelming number of HSTs out there are BX's and Grand Ls right?

Plus, my L4400DT does have a cup holder cooler. But for some reason it only works from December through March.

Sorry, I was trying to be humorous too. Maybe I should have put a few at the end?

 

[N80]

It is interesting the range of experiences that people have. I had a 1984 Nissan 4x4 P/U for years. Transmission went bad, bushings or something, lots of metal and brass looking stuff in the fluid. Shade tree mechanic fixed it for less than $300 (including new clutch) in a garage that looked more like a barn and it ran for another 75,000 miles before being totalled in an accident. And that was a Japanese truck, not a Ford. I think your troubles had more to do with that model than manual tranny's.

But to be picky, I don't think the analogy stands anyway. An automatic tranny in a truck or a car has very little, if anything, in common with a tractor HST.

Did I mention that I despise automatic transmissions in trucks too. I bet that surprises...no one.

I have the shop manual for my 4400 and to me, it looks quite complex. But in reality, if you read it, its just a very basic, simple, easy to service geared tranny. The PTO (hydraulic clutch) looks a little tricky, but anything else in there should be serviceable by any competent tractor mechanic, and fortunately, I'm related to one. Cracking a tractor is no big deal in his shop.

I also think it is funny that the HST crowd has this idea that anyone who spends time on one will give up their geared machine and never go back. There are two flaws in this idea: 1) Not everyone can afford an HST and 2) Some people need what their geared tractor provides even if they did like the HST.

We've gone through examples of both of these ad nauseum. People who use and like geared tractors are not Luddites, which seems to be a popular but flawed notion. We're simply people who have chosen the best tool that we can afford for the jobs we have/want/need to do. Its just that simple.

 

[N80]

Sorry, I was trying to be humorous too. Maybe I should have put a few at the end?

I knew that.

 

[Egon]

[You could get a N ford tractor sans starter.. yet still have battery ignition, rubber tires, generator voltage regulator and battery. The same trans bellhousing was used, and a blank plate was installed in the opening. AND you can hit many suppliers and get a starter for less than 100$.. so there... there's an example.../QUOTE]

But gee whilickers, what would it have cost to do the original manufacturing without making compromises for an amenity like a starter. A magneto would have worked well in place of the generator, battery and all the associated foofaraw too would it not?

 

[N80]

Why are we talking about starters? Who wants a tractor without a starter?