Is it just me, or does this go too far?

[ducati996]

If you really want to test this, the only way to do it is with a load cell. Even throwing weights in your bucket is pointless. Yea you know what they weigh - but we go back to this same issue.. where exactly where in the bucket are they. Set them at the front edge and your capacity drops quite a bit - curl the bucket back and your now lifting more.


I personally do own a load cell and have tested tractors with it. If you would like to rent it (it cost me $350) for a few days I'd certianly let you.

If you have ever seen 100 lb plates then you will know it will sit at the edge as well as the back of the bucket. Im pretty certain it will give a real good indicator of whats the abilities are. And I will save myself $350 LOL..

I will get around to doing this one day

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Neil, could you describe how the load cell works? Sounds interesting.

Its pretty simple. Its an S-shaped piece of steel with a sensor on it that measures the amount of deflection in the metal when its pulled upon. The S has a big eye bolt though either end. Using this you can attach to a single point and pull. I've actually tested a handful of tractors with it and I was amazed how each one preformed exactly to its given ratting, no more, no less. What is interesting is that you can easily see a real world example of how the lifting point radicly changes the results.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

I've actually tested a handful of tractors with it and I was amazed how each one preformed exactly to its given ratting, no more, no less

OK, Neil I am not saying that this isn't so. But that does SEEM strange. I mean, even though you are using a load cell, I amagine there are other variales (atmospheric pressure, sunspots, alignment of Jupiter and Saturn...) that affect the measurements. It seems like the 'official' tests always leave just about everything falling short of their advertised numbers... But two machines side by side - it will certainly give a fair representation.

But that said, your point about easily seeing the effect of the different load points is surely a big eye opener...

 

[Bob_Skurka]

It seems like the 'official' tests always leave just about everything falling short of their advertised numbers.

Mike those 'official' test are probably the Nebraska tests. Realize they far more rigid & scientific than parking lot tests, also realize they are only performed on AG tractors and not on our CUTs. I suspect that while the tests attempt to be neutral, they were designed many years ago and now are still a great source of information and comparison and a way to keep the manufacturers honest, but they are not a reliable indicator of the performance or capacity of a CUT of any brand.

But that said, your point about easily seeing the effect of the different load points is surely a big eye opener...

And Neil and I spent quite a bit of time about a year ago trading information on this issue, my unoffical data and his load cell measurements always seemed to confirm each other. I often harp (ad nausium) on the issues of measurement points for loaders and 3pt lifts, but it is something that many users are simply uneducated about. It actually is scary that so many dealers are also ignorant of the differences in how the different points make HUGE differences in capacity.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

OH, and in no way am I suggesting that HE or anyonyne heare is intentionally or unintentionally attempting to mislead.

Neil, you mentioned you might rent it out... is it easily shipped like by UPS? Maybe we can get a 'Road Test' going - even setup a Road Test forum for similar things...

 

[keeney]

A couple of comments about loader ratings that this thread does not seem to address:

1. It is my understanding that dedicated wheel-loaders and skid-steer loaders are typically rated by their tipping capacity. And this number has a 2x or 3x (I forget) safety factor baked into it. So if the machine would literally tip over with 6000 lbs in the bucket at any point in the lift, the rated "tipping" capacity would be only 2000 or 3000 lbs. Tipping capacity is a good way to get an idea og how much the machine can safely lift when properly ballasted. I think perhaps when tipping capacity gets used interchangeably with hydraulic force curve capacity it can lead to quite a bit of confusion.

2. On many of these CUTs and sub-CUTs, the rated loader lift capacity actually far exceeds the rated front axle (and mayeb tires too) capacity of the machine the loader is mounted on. For example, my JD 4100 with 410 loader. I think the loader can hydraulically lift like 1200 lbs to 24" or something. But the front axle of the tractor is only rated for something like 1100 lbs. The front axle is already carrying maybe a third of the weight of the tractor (600 lbs) and substantially the entire dead weight of the loader and bucket (maybe another 500 lbs?). I think the math comes out that there is technically zero remaining front axel capacity for any live payload in the loader bucket.

So putting a loader on a CUT or sub-CUT, and expecting to safely lift much over 1000 lbs to 1500lb is asking a lot from a machine that might only weigh 2000 to 3000 lbs itself.

 

[Nuru]

keeney; ?I thought the load capacity that is advertised is taking in consideration the weight of the loader, and the capability of the axles?

?Otherwise wouldn't even adding a load of mulch would be very risky? I had a 4100 and would routinely lift 300 - 500 pounds of materials, rocks, etc (occasionally lift 500 - 600), and when I went in for the routine check-ups, never heard a peep from the Dealer worrying about load capacity - as long as I kept below the rated (Verbal from dealer) lift capacity of the loader (200CX).

 

[keeney]

The axle capacity I was referencing is the gross axle weight rating. It doesn't care what is on the axle - just how much it weighs. "Gross" includes the tractor, the oil, coolant, the fuel, the operator, the loader, the bucket, and what is in the bucket. Like I said, on my 4100, the axle rating technically left zero capacity for any payload in the bucket.

Also, tire ratings are going to be gross (per tire) at max pressure. These numbers are stamped on the tire. A CUT or sub-CUT 4-ply front tire might only be rated for 650 or 750 lbs, each.

- Rick

 

[JiminGa]

that's a big part of the reason for so much rear ballast, to leverage the weight over the entire machine instead of it being just on the front axles. as we all know, the machine will lift far beyond the ratings, just use common sense.

 

[DavesTractor]

that's a big part of the reason for so much rear ballast, to leverage the weight over the entire machine instead of it being just on the front axles. as we all know, the machine will lift far beyond the ratings, just use common sense.

Ballast is needed for safety to prevent tipping and to keep the front axle from having to provide all the power to move the machine (front axles are made to assist with moving the machine, not to do all the work, they are much lighter than rear axles), however that does not lighten the payload on the front axle unless I am missing something.