Oil & Fuel Front axle/ 30 W oil ?

[greg_g]

My guess is it would be better that dino gear oil because of it's supposedly better lubing qualities.

In a fully submerged situation, your guess might have legs. But the tranny and both diffs have exposed components that depend upon the gear oil ability to climb. Mineral oil climbs, synthetic oil splashes.

Synthetics might be perfectly ok to break in a mainstream tractor machined to 21st century tolerances, I don't know. But it's simply too slippery to climb AND too slippery to competently break in most entry level Chinese tractors and implements. For that I still recommend at least 300 hours of mineral oil lubrication. After that, feel free to experiment with synthetics at your own risk.

//greg//

 

[Soundguy]

I'd use utf or gear oil vs 30w engine oil in that application for sure..

soundguy

 

[RickB]

I would use 80W90 in your front axle and tranny. Make sure you locate all the drain plugs. The front axle has 3 and the tranny has 4.

Chris.

80W-90 is a poor choice for the transmission IF the trans housing is part of the hydraulic reservoir.

 

[greg_g]

... IF the trans housing is part of the hydraulic reservoir.

It is not. There are a few Chinese exceptions, but Jinma is not one of them (NorTracs are rebadged Jinmas). On Jinmas, tranny and rear diff housings share a sump that is completely independent of the hydraulic system. We repeatedly advise against the use of universal type fluid in separate sump designs of Chinese origin; UTF is often too thin for the gears, usually too thick for the hydraulics.

//greg//

 

[IH3444]

The retired military helocopter pilot whom began the Amsoil company, did so on his experience while flying combat missions in Vietnam. He noticed that when he returned from a mission that the rotor gear box had been hit, a hole was in it, and all the gear lube has drained out. He questioned the aviation technicians about it and was told that the helo rotor gear boxes were filled with synthetic gear lube, and that it has the ability to cling to metal parts, and still keep operating at elevated tempertures. He attributed the high quality of the synthetic gear to saving his life, and the others that he had brought back. After his service to America, he founded the company, Amsoil.

I also have had my volkswagen Jetta serviced, and was allowed to speak with the technician whom was checking the valve clearance on my diesel engine. After pulling the valve cover off a summer time hot engine, he asked what kind of oil was I using. A quite unexpected question, of which I had the answer. Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil. He exclaimed that he had never seen a hot engine that the oil hadn't run off the camshaft when hot, and was wondering what oil it was. He also stated that it was tough to wipe it off the camshaft lobes.

I'm not a trained tribologist, just relaying a few stories......

 

[bluechip]

Just a couple quick comments. Having been to the shandong factory that builds the KAMA branded tractors and toured their mahcine shops I can tell you that I saw NO equipment capable of holding "tenths" (ten thoustands or .0001") In fact, I saw mostly older manual machines, a bank of NC (NOT CNC) milling machines, that I could not idenify, but appeared to be out of the late 60s (6 or 8, maybe one still ran). They have their own foundry that appeared as if it was out of the 1930s. They did have test fixtures to "run in" assembled transmissions. The DF factory was different with late model, mostley Japanesese (and surprisingly a couple of US made HAAS machines) pallet chaninging HMCs etc. This was a big factor in my decision to go with DFAM for our AgTrac tractors. I had made my living as a CNC service tech and later as a sales engineer so the machine shop was a priority for me.

I didn't go to the Jinma factory and the Foton factory had no in-house machining.

The only yellow metals I have seen in the front end are in the differential assembly. there are brass thrust washers under the 4 smaller gears (spider gears) in the differential. While I have not seen these fail on a KAMA, I have reuibilt a few front differentials on Jinma 200 series tracors and in every case these brass washers had extruded out from behind the gears, this increases the clearence on the gear mesh and makes them prone to damage. I guess this is more from the increased pressure of loader work than a partiluclar lubricant, but if the sulfer in EP type oils does more than stain the brass, if it softens it or is abrasive to it, I would avoid using it. I have not had one apart, but suspect there are also brass washers used in the rear differential. I don't recall seeing any other bushings or parts made of brass. Our Agtrac 3024 had a full synchro transmission and the synchro rings are a brass alloy. I suspect "MT-1" may indicate manual transmission which are mostly synchronized these days. At least I use that to remember the spec when I order gear oil...

 

[Soundguy]

Plenty of 80w90 out tht is yellow metal safe.. penzoil and castroil have one, and in mny places the walmart supertech gear oil also lists that it is yellow metal safe.

soundguy

 

[greg_g]

the helo rotor gear boxes were filled with synthetic gear lube, and that it has the ability to cling to metal parts...

Cling and climb are different properties. Climb is the ability of an oil to use centrifugal force to walk up the gear faces ABOVE the dipstick level. Cling just refers to how long it takes centrifugal force to spin dry an inadvertently exposed bearing or gear. Chinese tractor differentials and transmissions have exposed parts ABOVE the dipstick level. So it's important that the lubricant selected - can CLIMB.

And if I'm not mistaken - everything is submerged in most VN-era helo transmissions. Besides, Al Amatuzio flew a fighter jet. Are you seriously comparing a Chinese tractor to a high performance jet aircraft? Or bettery yet - remind me where the front differential is on either a Huey or a Thud.......

//greg//

 

[greg_g]

Plenty of 80w90 out tht is yellow metal safe.. penzoil and castroil have one, and in mny places the walmart supertech gear oil also lists that it is yellow metal safe.

soundguy

My point exactly. There's no reason to use anything other than gear oil in (most) Chinese gearboxes and differentials. I'm not sure of the exact reason, but for a while there really was a reason for concern. Gear oils marked GL4 and GL5 appeared not suitable for yellow metals. That just left GL1 (hard to find at all anymore) and MT1 (hard to find in multi-viscosity). The reason stated was as Chip just mentioned, EP additives in GL4/GL5 attacked copper/brass/bronze. Either the original labeling was incorrect, the original concerns were unfounded, or - more likely - the manufacturers are starting to reformulate the EP additives. I say this because of the recent increase in the number of GL4 and GL5 gear oils that are now marked to include the API rating of MT1

//greg//

 

[IH3444]

Yes Greg, I'm familiar with the term climb, others refer to this as a wicking effect. I'm sure that both regular oil, and synthetics have this same atribute. I'm surprised that one would be better in this than the other. They both are oils, and synthetics are just a better engineered regular oil. I don't think that this desirable quality of wicking, or climbing would be engineered out. With all the differences that have been pointed out about chinese tractors, with the need for climbing oils, and yellow metal being an issue, seems that a market exists for a speciality formulated gear oil for chinese tractors. To help them properly break in from being machined, to being protected due to the brass thrust washers. Seems that brass being used as a thrust washer would have give anyway over time no matter what lubercant was being used. Rob pointed out there was no brass metal in has beveled gear areas.

Sorry if I related the military gear box to the gear box in the chinese tractors......that is a great mistake of mine. Nothing could be futher from the truth.