Going Mac...maybe.

[N80]

What part of "we have over three hundred pcs and 40-50 macs and the hardware failure rate among both is proportionately equal" do you not understand?

I never questioned your experience.

 

[smfcpacfp]

No, you're not. It makes perfect sense to me.



It is a tool, and a commodity, you're right. My tool works roughly 99% of the time, and rarely wastes my time.

There's your rise........

What side are you on here??? Are you one of those Microsoft hired double agents I've been hearing about??

-Jer.

Ha Ha Ha. Yes I am and we look for any opportunity to stick it to those old Mac zealots.

I am sort of a double agent. My portable is a new MacBook Pro on which I can dual boot (Leopard and Windows Vista). My desktop, which I built is a dual boot (Vista and XP).

I thought that the Mac users had given up on their conversion zealotry years ago, but I guess not.

Lets see, should a get a Zune or a iPod?

 

[NuBota]

This discussion - I never get it - apples and oranges. Not unlike the server wars that go on between Windows and UNIX/Linux.

The hardware is irrelevant because the same vendors make memory, hard drives, video cards, etc for both. Just like they do for big iron systems. Versatility with the OS is the key. A Intel based PC can run OSes other then Windows - Linux and now Solaris - but the software selection is sparse The MAC OS - regardless of version -has always been intended as an appliance - perfect for the average home user. But is has the same limitations in terms of available software. Yes, you can run Windows software with emulators and virtual machines - but at that point you have just introduced the problems you meant to avoid.

And you could build a Windows PC that ran as stable as a MAC. You simply have to restrict it so that a user cannot affect any changes to the system. This is inherent in the MAC OS as it is in UNIX based systems. Software made for these latter systems is designed for the specific version on the OS kernel being run and is restricted from making significant changes to the system area. A Windows app can be written to span all versions of Windows since all of the software libraries from previous versions still exist (for the most part) in the latest. And the software installation can add/extend software modules at the system level as long as the user allows it to run. This offers great value in terms or versatility and extensibility, but also exposes the system to greater risk of virus and malware attacks

Windows bloat is primarily due to its ability to maintain backward compatibility. Software that ran in DOS and early Windows can still, in many cases, be run on current platforms. That is not true with the MAC or most other platforms. This is why it is popular in most workplaces - you can run proprietary software that is 10 years old on an XP machine. Not true if it was coded for an Apple IIc.

It all depends of use case, availability of software, and supportability.
Let's face it - M$ marketing created an entire workforce based on it's product - many Windows Certified folks out there that are barely capable users. If you do have an issue with a MAC - say poorly written software (it does exist) - who do you call? Your UNIX guy who cost a fortune or the Windows guy who can't spell MAC?


I am truly agnostic - as an IT guy dealing with big iron systems - I can point out strengths and weaknesses in all platforms. As an old DEC guy, I still tout DEC VMS as the only, truly, bullet proof platform....

 

[Chuck52]

I am truly agnostic - as an IT guy dealing with big iron systems - I can point out strengths and weaknesses in all platforms. As an old DEC guy, I still tout DEC VMS as the only, truly, bullet proof platform....

I still have a number of 5.25 floppies from my gone-but-not-forgotten DEC. I can't even remember what that last box was, but I had a reel-to-reel tape deck on it, too. I do believe I managed to make DOS 5.25 floppies of all that data before I sent the DEC to surplus, and then I made 3.5 floppies, and then I made CDs and then I made DVDs and now I've got stuff on multiple hard drives, here and there, and on flash drives....the only "latest" archive format I skipped was the zip drive. I really did like VMS. It kept me from losing stuff by keeping the various versions of files automatically. I started out on a PDP 5 controlling the instrument, and when the mainframes ruled I had "conversant with JCL" on my resume.

It's not just that our IT guys want to only buy instruments interfaced to PCs, BTW. What I said was we just don't see Macs offered as options. Since you can now run Windows software on Macs, one could clearly use Macs for all those applications where the interface is in the instrument and all that's needed is a usb port, but the equipment manufacturers don't often seem to port their software to OS X, so you lose any possible advantage anyway.

George,

What do the medical instruments use? What kind of box is on a those big whole-body nmr machines you guys like to charge us so much to climb into? The high-powered specialized graphics systems we used to see, like Sun and Silicon Graphics and others whose names I have forgotten, mostly seem to have been absorbed, like DEC, or simply gone away. I wonder if they have proprietary computers on those Gawd awfully expensive toys, or use one of the two remaining "standards".

Chuck

 

[jgrreed]

George,

What do the medical instruments use? What kind of box is on a those big whole-body nmr machines you guys like to charge us so much to climb into? The high-powered specialized graphics systems we used to see, like Sun and Silicon Graphics and others whose names I have forgotten, mostly seem to have been absorbed, like DEC, or simply gone away. I wonder if they have proprietary computers on those Gawd awfully expensive toys, or use one of the two remaining "standards".

Chuck

I'm not George, but I can tell you that most of the software for viewing the MRI's (PACS/Impax) is Windows based (makes me cringe, but it's true). There is just recently a OS X based PACS system that I have no experience with. I don't know about the actual inner workings, but I just text messaged my buddy who's an MR maintenance tech, so I'll know soon.

I am sort of a double agent. My portable is a new MacBook Pro on which I can dual boot (Leopard and Windows Vista). My desktop, which I built is a dual boot (Vista and XP).

I suppose I am now too.... I just loaded XP on my Macbook under VMWare's Fusion emulator. It's not a dual boot, which is nice because it's just another window on the desktop. I need it to view images on PACS. It really creeps me out to see that awful blue screen and "loading your personal settings" on that startup screen. Uuuuggghhhh......

Vista AND XP on one machine??? Gross!!!! That thing must even smell bad!!

-Jer.

 

[jgrreed]

Lets see, should a get a Zune or a iPod?

You're me kidding right??? Lemme guess, next you're gonna ask Kubota or Joh.......

Oh nevermind.

-Jer.

ps - I'm kidding by the way.... It's all in good fun....

 

[N80]

The hardware is irrelevant because the same vendors make memory, hard drives, video cards, etc for both.

I don't think hardware is irrelevant or identical. I would agree that any high end Dell might have the same components as a Mac. But that doesn't mean that every PC has the same or even similar components as a Mac. For the most part, Macs represent the higher end of the personal computer market in terms of components, design and quality control. My point is, that some $350 desktop from Acer is not comparable in quality or components to even the lowest end iMac. The majority of Macs are better built than the majority of PCs when you take into account the junk PCs sold on the low end and put on desks in offices like mine.

But is has the same limitations in terms of available software.

I think this gets misleading for two reasons, at least for the home user. You are absolutely right about there being more software for Windows. Way more. But two things need to be mentioned. First, a lot of the software you mention is narrowly focused proprietary business and industry type software and this has little or no impact on home users.....and that is the context of this discussion after all. The OP, nor virtually anyone else, could care less if he can hook his new MacBook or Dell laptop to newspaper layout software designed in Holland for Knight-Ridder. (BTDT ) The second issue is that there is indeed more software for Windows for individual and small business users too. However, a huge percentage of that is low end me-too software. How many low end photo album programs do you need? There must be 8 of them on my Mom's PC alone. All of them stink, even the one from Adobe. Every time she installs a printer driver or gets a new digital camera another one gets installed when she hits the 'default' install option. When you talk about numbers, that sort of thing is a huge portion of the software unavailable for Macs. For the majority of home and small business users there is virtually no specific area for which there is not equivalent or superior software choices for the Mac.

And you could build a Windows PC that ran as stable as a MAC.

Millions upon millions of home users are perplexed and probably angry over this statement.

But it does get to the heart of the problem. Microsoft tries to make Windows too many things to too many people. And something has to give, including simplicity, elegance and stability.

Windows bloat is primarily due to its ability to maintain backward compatibility. Software that ran in DOS and early Windows can still, in many cases, be run on current platforms. That is not true with the MAC or most other platforms. This is why it is popular in most workplaces - you can run proprietary software that is 10 years old on an XP machine. Not true if it was coded for an Apple IIc.

I don't see that at the application level at all. I can open documents made on a 1984 Mac on my 2007 iMac. You might be right about proprietary software, but try to convince a MS Word user of this. I can open more Word documents on my new Mac than I can at work on my PC running Word!!

It all depends of use case, availability of software, and supportability. Let's face it - M$ marketing created an entire workforce based on it's product - many Windows Certified folks out there that are barely capable users.

Good point. The IT guy that comes to our office from the 'big' office is barely competent.

If you do have an issue with a MAC - say poorly written software (it does exist) - who do you call? Your UNIX guy who cost a fortune or the Windows guy who can't spell MAC?

Another good point. Two thoughts come to mind. MS did a much better job at making its software the de facto standard at home and at work by making it the standard at work. So many PC users stay chained to MS because that is what they have at work. They have it at work because that's all there is and Apple has made absolutely no effort to penetrate that market. As it turns out, that was very smart and allows Apple to not be forced into making bloated systems that try to do everything for everyone. However, the second thing that comes to mind is that for home and small business users, the a lot of problems can be solved by any competent Mac user. Not my mom. Not my wife. But me. And my son. Do you know how hard it was to wireless network 4 Macs using three different OS's and three printers for 4 people? Simple. Scary simple. And as you can tell, I'm clearly not a computer guy. When I compare that to my IT/web-guy B-I-L pulling his hair out trying to get one new printer to work on my Mom's Dell, it just makes you wonder.

I am truly agnostic - as an IT guy dealing with big iron systems - I can point out strengths and weaknesses in all platforms.

I appreciate your very objective input and those of others as well, but often wonder why these Mac vs PC debates often end up discussing IT issues, kernels, Linux, spectrophotometers, scintigraphy and proprietary systems when it starts out about which machine will run iTunes best and is easiest to hook to a printer?

 

[N80]

I thought that the Mac users had given up on their conversion zealotry years ago, but I guess not.

I think you're mistaking the old zealotry for unabashed snobbery. We don't really care if people stay with Windows anymore than BMW M5 owners care if people drive Impalas . We just don't mind telling you why we drive the M5.

Lets see, should a get a Zune or a iPod?

That's easy! Put it too the test. Simply study the look on the face of your 14 year old daughter when she pulls a Zune out of her stocking Christmas morning!

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

We don't really care if people stay with Windows anymore than BMW M5 owners care if people drive Impalas . We just don't mind telling you why we drive the M5.

My Impala-driving wife doesn't mind it either when she hands the BMW M5 driver that $300.00 speeding ticket.

 

[N80]

My Impala-driving wife doesn't mind it either when she hands the BMW M5 driver that $300.00 speeding ticket.

Funny.