rebuilding drive motor

[pgold]

I took a drive motor off my skidsteer and took it to a hydraulics shop to get it fixed. The motor worked, but it was slow when the oil would heat up (thin out). I assume that is because the oil would slip through the grooves on the scored walls. They said that I should just buy a new one from them. Is it impossible for me to rebuild it myself? I am mechanically inclined and I can get a machine shop to do the things I can't do myself. I am trying to get my machine up and running again as cheaply as I can. Things are pretty tight right now and paying over 1000 dollars for a new drive motor is going to hurt. I have a local parts place called Motion Industries and I imagine they can get me any part I will need. I am open to suggestions and I appreciate any advice.

 

[PILOON]

Interesting.
Time to think 'out of the box'!

In aviation when an engine cylinder was scored or over size, because of the high cost, they'd bore oversize and chrome plate back to standard.
Maybe it is time for the hydraulic industry to look into that possibility.

The plating process is well known as is machineing to close tolarances, so what is holding back entrepeneurs from exploring this great potential?
Surely a hydraulic pump does not work as hard or as hot as an airctaft engine!

I really don't see why it can't be done.

 

[pgold]

I was just thinking I could take everything apart and get all the walls bored slightly larger. I don't see why people would rebuild engines and be afraid of this little motor. It seems quite simple, but maybe there is something I am overlooking.

 

[J_J]

I was just thinking I could take everything apart and get all the walls bored slightly larger. I don't see why people would rebuild engines and be afraid of this little motor. It seems quite simple, but maybe there is something I am overlooking.

Probably not a good idea to do it yourself unless you have all the tools to measure things and the ability to clean up wear marks and scoring.
I would just get a quote on rebuilding from several places, and compare that to a new or surplus motor from several places. . I have been told many times that things like that are not worth rebuilding, and that was from the hydraulic tech, not the salesman.

 

[copperdog]

There is not many people who know how to fix anything anymore, thats some of the reason they want to replace it.

If you can hook a playstation up to it and fix it that way, you might find a qualified person.

I would think your first challange would be to find replacement parts to repair your motor. Especially if you need a housing?
Does China know how to make them yet?

Sorry, I am frustrated with America's work ethic.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

There is not many people who know how to fix anything anymore, thats some of the reason they want to replace it.

If you can hook a playstation up to it and fix it that way, you might find a qualified person.

I would think your first challange would be to find replacement parts to repair your motor. Especially if you need a housing?
Does China know how to make them yet?

Sorry, I am frustrated with America's work ethic.

Ugh. I own and operate a hose and hydraulic shop. I am frustrated with America's ignorance.

 

[PILOON]

There is not many people who know how to fix anything anymore, thats some of the reason they want to replace it.

Sorry, I am frustrated with America's work ethic.

Today's machineists only know how to use a computerized lathe, gone are the real macheneists.
The shops prefer to sell a replacement that someone else will warrantee with a sure profit and not carry inventory, it's called 'just in time' marketing; but with today's economy it seems that nobody in the supply chains has inventory anymore so they now call it 'special order item'.
I have noticed that auto parts stores only seem to have oil filters and similar high volume stock on hand, just about everything else is 'next day' or 'next shipment' basis, with 'special order' becoming more and more common.
And that down to some basic spark plugs such as J8's.
Shucks, my neighbor slashed a tire on his 2 yr old Jeep and had to wait 3 days for a 'special order' as they claimed it was an uncommon size! (no, it was the factory origional equipment)

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Do you guys have any clue what it costs to stock parts? I have stuff on my shelf that's been there for over 2 years. I would have made more if I took the money it cost to stock that piece and put it in the bank. I'm probably an idiot for stocking what I do. Then when someone is in a pinch and I do have it, they complain about the price.

A machinist must first learn on non computerized equipment before he can learn CNC. CNC equipment has brought the cost of parts way down as it is much faster and more precise.

 

[J_J]

Wayne, you did not answer pgold's question, the question was, can he get someone to rebuild at a reasonable price , or would it be advisable to get a new motor.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Wayne, you did not answer pgold's question, the question was, can he get someone to rebuild, or would it be advisable to get a new motor.

I don't know without looking at it. If he has doubts, I would seek another opinion. There is a company I deal with that seems very reputable. They are Attica Hydraulics in Michigan.

In most cases, by the time you do the machine work and buy the parts, you are up over half the cost of new which is in most cases about the time you should consider just buying new.

 

[EddieWalker]

Not knowing what type of drive motor that you have, it's pretty safe to guess that it's not a do it yourself type of project. While the drive motors are not as critical as the hydraulic pumps, they do have some extreme tolerances and clearances. I would talk to your parts guy at the dealer and get a price for a replacement. It will probably be a rebuilt unit. Then in your best buddy way, ask where they get them rebuilt. I don't know about your area, but here, the mechanics farm out stuff like that. I've been told where they get it done my my parts guys and have saved allot of money useing the same businesses to rebuild stuff that they do.

One thing that I was told when I had my hydraulic pump rebuilt, was that they would not gurantee the work on it unless they rebuilt the drive motor at the same time. Since they carry the same fluid back and forth, if one is bad, they are both bad. Rebuilding one just means that the other will ruin the new one again.

I spent $3,000 to have my pump and drive motor rebuilt on my dozer. I took them out and brough them to the rebuild shop, then installed them myself. If you do this, be sure to get the manuals on how to break in the motor. For me, it was important to run it without any load on it. That meant putting it in the air so the tracks didn't touch the ground and spinning them forwards and backwards for a period of time. I forget how long, but it wasn't very long. Maybe five minutes if I remember correctly, but I'm not sure.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[SnowRidge]

Get the full part number off the bad motor and start surfing for a new one. You may be able to find it for less than what the local guy wants. Then again, maybe not. You won't know until you try. If it is off of something common, like a Bobcat, it should be readily available.

Parts should be available locally and also from some on line sources. If you want to try your hand at rebuilding it, you will need the service manual. Almost all of the hydraulic motor manufacturers have them on line. That is the place to start.

 

[mwb]

In most cases, by the time you do the machine work and buy the parts, you are up over half the cost of new which is in most cases about the time you should consider just buying new.

I agree with this; if you consider the cost of staffing a mechanic to service this, plus the operating cost of a shop you should have to expect to pay $50 - $100 per hour for labour. I does not take long to run up a high labour cost and there is no way to avoid it unless you do it yourself. With your own lathe, mill, gas to pick up parts, etc.

I don't know how long it would take to rebuild that motor but I would think it would ruin one man-day, remember that this is a one-off, not an assembly line.

I would bite the bullet and buy a new one for $1000.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Try loader parts source dot com

Ken

 

[Wayne County Hose]

You can also try Wenger's in Myerstown Pa. They might have a used one. They have a real good website. Wenger's of Myerstown - Farm Equipment, Agriculture Equipment, Tractor Parts, Construction Equipment, Construction Parts

 

[dfkrug]

I took a drive motor off my skidsteer and took it to a hydraulics shop to get it fixed. The motor worked, but it was slow when the oil would heat up (thin out). I assume that is because the oil would slip through the grooves on the scored walls.

If you have scored walls inside your hyd motor, that is probably due to
dirty fluid, which would also affect your other motors and the main pump.
Are they about to fail, too?

As for repairing the motor, maybe it can be done at a machine shop with
a boring tool, but it won't be at Motion Industries, I will bet. That is a
chain that I have not had good experiences with.

 

[SnowRidge]

Someone should have asked this question before. Didn't the repair shop call you up and tell you it was scored and would be uneconomical to repair?

 

[J_J]

Eddie, You said this

One thing that I was told when I had my hydraulic pump rebuilt, was that they would not guarantee the work on it unless they rebuilt the drive motor at the same time. Since they carry the same fluid back and forth, if one is bad, they are both bad. Rebuilding one just means that the other will ruin the new one again.

Now that in itself would just pi** me off that they would not guarantee their work, especially if they actually tested the pump after a rebuild, or new, and maybe with you watching. And then want to rebuild the hydraulic motors associated with that pump. That would mean 4 hydraulic motors on my machine. No way. Sure I understand cross contamination, but if the fluid is going to tank from the hydraulic motors, and the pump is drawing from the tank through a filter, it should be ok. You could also have in-line high pressure filters installed.

Anyway, after asking for a 4 ft hydraulic hose with standard pipe thread, and being charged $60.00. I learned a valuable lesson, and that was to ask for information first, and make your own logical decisions. I should have asked for options. I guess they sold me the best they had, assuming that was what I wanted. I also learned to do it your self if you have the knowledge and ability.

Relating this to something else, I have had the E4OD transmission in my F-250 rebuilt several times, and it is down again. My thought on this is that they are not worth a dam, or they are not putting the complete kit in, or both. I watched someone rebuild a transmission once, and he used just about all the parts in the kit. That in itself is no guarantee that it would work good, but I think I had more faith after seeing the work done.

When the guys in my area test my pumps, motors and valves, they let me watch, as they run through the test. I am impressed with their knowledge, and they answer all questions. If I had funds for a small hydraulic test rig, I would have one in a heartbeat.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I don't blame shops for not guaranteeing their work unless other criteria are met. I deal with shops that won't guarantee a pump rebuild without a fluid sample passing their tests. I personally know a guy responsible for going out to the customer's machine after the new / rebuilt pump is installed and takes a fluid sample. If it doesn't pass, no warranty. Flushing out your hydraulic system after repairs like this is more important than the repair itself.

 

[J_J]

Wayne, do you guys do your own test or send it out. That would take about a week at least if sent out.