More Ford 6.7L Scorpion News

[Dargo]

its amazing the technology in diesel motors now. i have an 06 6.0 and love it. i can't imagine more power than that. people will need a cdl to drive these things before long.

I just towed 18,000 pounds over 1400 miles behind my '06 Ford with the 6.0 PSD. A big part of the trip was through mountains and I was constantly going up 6 percent and 7 percent grades. Not once did I lose speed going up the mountains. I could leave my cruise set on 60, 65, 70, 75 mph etc. no problem. Not once did the exhaust temps go up into a hot range nor did the engine or transmission. I figure anymore power wouldn't matter since, with the weight of my truck included, I am just under 26,000 pounds total. I have absolutely no desire to get a CDL again and pay the additional insurance expenses.

This is the same truck that I posted a video and time slip of a low 14 second 1/4 mile run at the track with too.

 

[Builder]

I am with you. I am a Ford truck user, but the chances of Ford getting this right out of the box is not good. Major design changes. I have late model 6.4L Ford with no issues. Maybe in few years. Bought my 08 for 13K off list price, no doubt new unit won't be that cheap.

You're smart for waiting to see what will happen. After the 6 leaker debacle, who wouldn't wait.

 

[horse7]

Too bad they had to use aluminum heads, although with CAFE growing substantially more restrictive in 2011 every kg is going to count.

The CAFE is another issue, "fuel guzzlers" like these are likely to command a premium price, because Ford (and GM, and Dodge, and everyone else) need to restrict the market to avoid fines and that is a huge profit opportunity. Alternatively, they can just pass through a gas guzzler "sin" tax since the Fed will be desperate for money (it is a sin, after all, to have a truck with a fuel guzzling diesel! You mean you can't pull that 18000lb trailer with a Toyota Pius?). A friend 5 years ago bought an Audi S4 Cabriolet and paid a 5000 gas guzzler fee on top of the 55K price tag. So either the Fed will go for a tax, or the mfg will charge a stiff premium to limit sales to avoid a fine when sales of tiny toy PUs aren't high enough. They gotta sell a huge number of toys to make up for one diesel like this... which is why buying another truck in 2010 before the greedster price jump goes into effect is attractive.

 

[mjncad]

Interesting articles on the Scorpion powerplant. Here's hoping the engine lives up to its hype. I'm sorry to see that a manual tranny will no longer be offered.

I agree with other comments that its too bad the engine won't be assembled in the USA.

 

[Builder]

Too bad they had to use aluminum heads.

Why do you say that? They have proven to be fine when the proper gasket is used between them and the block.

I've seen more diesel head-related problems with grey iron heads because of too few or stretched head bolts. Look at the 6L with all its' head failures & head stud problems, degas bottles puking coolant, etc. These are all head problems and they're not even aluminum heads. A substantial percentage of all the 6L's on the road have aftermarket ARP studs holding down the heads just to keep them running. Unfortunately, that's why the 6L got the nickname the "6 leaker". Add power to a stock engine and it gets even worse because of added pressures & heat.

The weight savings of aluminum not only saves not only weight off the engine, but the suspension as well. I think aluminum is the casting material of the future as long as it's used properly, it's lighter, lasts a long time without corrosion and saves fuel.

I was skeptical when they were introduced, too. Now I see it as an improvement. If they add aluminum heads and a factory ex brake, I'll be very interested in one after it gets a few years of guinea pig testing.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I've seen more diesel head-related problems with grey iron heads because of too few or stretched head bolts. Look at the 6L with all its' head failures & head stud problems, degas bottles puking coolant, etc. These are all head problems and they're not even aluminum heads. A substantial percentage of all the 6L's on the road have aftermarket ARP studs holding down the heads just to keep them running. Unfortunately, that's why the 6L got the nickname the "6 leaker". Add power to a stock engine and it gets even worse because of added pressures & heat.

Neither one of my 6L's have any head issues and have the factory head bolts holding them down even though I have added nearly 200Hp to each truck. One has about 60,000 miles and the other has 48,000 miles.

Like you said they need to put factory exhaust brakes, factory GN hitch with 5th wheel adapter available then they will have something. Its only a matter of time we see these things in all brands. We already have factory brake controllers, ect.

Chris

 

[horse7]

Why do you say that? They have proven to be fine when the proper gasket is used between them and the block.

I've seen more diesel head-related problems with grey iron heads because of too few or stretched head bolts. Look at the 6L with all its' head failures & head stud problems, degas bottles puking coolant, etc. These are all head problems and they're not even aluminum heads. A substantial percentage of all the 6L's on the road have aftermarket ARP studs holding down the heads just to keep them running. Unfortunately, that's why the 6L got the nickname the "6 leaker". Add power to a stock engine and it gets even worse because of added pressures & heat.

Cast iron, just like aluminum or anything else, can be improperly designed. The rumor for the 6L is that Navistar wanted to do another year of testing and development but Ford wanted (needed?) the 6L sooner... it would probably be fascinating to listen to the board meetings of both Ford and Navistar about their little tiff on the 6L. Aluminum wear and fatigue characteristics IMHO are substantially poorer than (properly designed for both) cast iron-- but having said that, if all you need is 150-200K out of your heads aluminum works fine, and frequently will last longer, but also has lower tolerance for excursions from the norm.

The main thing is the weight... I have a 7.3L w/CI heads, and the weight is massive on the front end. The front end is underdesigned for the 1000lb block and that causes chronic problems over time-- indeed, a 175K head job might be cheaper than what it costs to maintain the front end [this is rough road service, not road queen paved highway service BTW. Might be a lot cheaper just highway driving]. FWIW, I have read that Mercedes expects their commercial engines to average about 175K w/aluminum heads before a head job is needed, this is much less than a CI head-- but this is balanced against the lower mass (more fuel mileage, less wear on components (or lighter duty components saving more mass) by carrying less weight, etc.).

Haven't had time to follow the DMax w/Al heads to see how they are doing in that department. It would take some hours to sift through the chaff of DMax cheerleaders and detractors to find the real story good or bad.

 

[Builder]

Haven't had time to follow the DMax w/Al heads to see how they are doing in that department. It would take some hours to sift through the chaff of DMax cheerleaders and detractors to find the real story good or bad.

I did take the time to read about them before I decided to buy one. Coming off 20 years of Ford diesel ownership including 12 Ford diesel trucks and only 1 GMC, I was skeptical. After a lot of reading and seeing a lot of aluminum head diesels still going strong after 200K or more miles, I felt safe.

GM haters cryed foul long & loud about aluminum heads when the DMAX was introduced only to find that after 8 YEARS of production with aluminum heads, it is a non-issue. Now their beloved Fords will have them, too. How ironic. I wonder if those same complainers will refuse to buy Ford 6.7L diesels because the new 6.7L will have aluminum heads.

I know exactly what you mean about the weight of the 7.3L. No wonder Ford has to have higher front axle weight ratings. They had school bus engines in them and that adds hundreds more pounds of weight & stress on the front suspension. I'm pretty sure the 7.3L was ~1,000 lbs. I was replacing upper & lower "life" ball joints on my Fords every 30,000 miles.

I have read the 6L was ~975 lbs (but can't confirm). The duramax diesel is 836lbs. Ford's new 6.7L diesel is said to weigh 160 lbs less than the 6L, that will save weight, money and front axle stress on suspension, ball joints, brakes, etc. I bet they'll be cheering the use of aluminum heads rather quickly on the new 6.7L scorpio.

 

[Dargo]

Neither one of my 6L's have any head issues and have the factory head bolts holding them down even though I have added nearly 200Hp to each truck. One has about 60,000 miles and the other has 48,000 miles.

Gee, I hope I don't have problems with one of the track loaders I bought. It has an Isuzu diesel in it. Hopefully it isn't a new design engine forcing me to endure all the problems the people had to put up with buying the first problem plagued GM diesels with Isuzu engines in them. I haven't raised the cab to see if it has aluminum heads, but I seriously doubt it. Weight is important to have and it's supposedly an industrial Isuzu engine. I've not seen too many aluminum heads in industrial applications. Typically it's been more in performance oriented engines in the HP and speed competitions between the manufacturers. I guess time will tell if I made a mistake buying something with an Isuzu diesel. It ought to be fine. I'll be ticked it it isn't.

 

[Builder]

Neither one of my 6L's have any head issues and have the factory head bolts holding them down even though I have added nearly 200Hp to each truck. One has about 60,000 miles and the other has 48,000 miles.

Like you said they need to put factory exhaust brakes, factory GN hitch with 5th wheel adapter available then they will have something. Its only a matter of time we see these things in all brands. We already have factory brake controllers, ect.

Chris

I'm pretty sure I was reading a thread about another guy here with a 6L that was pumped up that installed ARP head studs. That's what the 6L hotrodders do to keep the heads from lifting.

Anyway, good to see those days are over and Ford is exploring new, more modern technology in the 6.7L like aluminum heads and CGI blocks. I wonder if the new 6.7L will still use powdered metal rods??