remember.. don't pull from the toplink

[Egon]

the ignition is turned off

Add in an engine air intake shutoff. That could also be utilized for other incipient conditions.

Mercury switches may not be the latest technology???

And how about an on board processor that shows the position of all safety switches and alarms when they malfunction as well as much more pertinent data.

ie: give the gauges some positive continuous backup and provide real time history.

 

[JB4310]

Steve,
like you already mentioned it's in the hands of the bean counters and insurance/liability loss analyzers. They're not driven by logic or mechanics and they definitely have zero consideration for ONE life.

There's no way you can replace the ROPS with electronics, even if you got the Backward Roll Over Prevention system (BROPS ) down pat, there still needs to be rops protection for side rolls etc

Another thought, how about an electronic slope/angle warning device with audible and light alarm. nothing that would put the machine in shut down but at least a warning. Might be able to shame the manufacturers into buying into that, or get a lobbyist to get the insurance companies to require it?
That's something that could help prevent accidents, without the expectation that it's idiot proof and would absolutely prevent injury, in other words in requires human input, like the seat belt. As in reacting to the warning.

 

[Steve C]

Steve,
like you already mentioned it's in the hands of the bean counters and insurance/liability loss analyzers. They're not driven by logic or mechanics and they definitely have zero consideration for ONE life.

There's no way you can replace the ROPS with electronics, even if you got the Backward Roll Over Prevention system (BROPS ) down pat, there still needs to be rops protection for side rolls etc

Another thought, how about an electronic slope/angle warning device with audible and light alarm. nothing that would put the machine in shut down but at least a warning. Might be able to shame the manufacturers into buying into that, or get a lobbyist to get the insurance companies to require it?
That's something that could help prevent accidents, without the expectation that it's idiot proof and would absolutely prevent injury, in other words in requires human input, like the seat belt. As in reacting to the warning.

Yes you are right, once you have a little electronic box on the machine with a 3 axis roll sensor, the possibilities are almost limitless if it is incorporated into the design. It could sense when you are going down hill with a load in the bucket and the back wheels come off the ground, causing you to gain speed while your wheels with the brakes attached are in the air

It could automatically curl the bucket back, lower it and apply down pressure to get the back wheels back on the ground, declutch and apply the brakes to get you stopped, without any operator input. Once you are stopped you can change your shorts, hit the reset buton and go back to work

It could and probably should apply the brakes if and when it actuates the ignition cut out and declutching in case you are on a hill and start to go over backwards, stopping you dead in your tracks, without actually being"DEAD IN YOUR OWN TRACKS". Since we now have a small computer on the tractor, we could use it to eliminate wheel spin, giving us perfect traction control.

And of course the side tilt warning system (STWS) that you mentioned would be a great feature. It could be set to automatically throttle back the engine as it approaches a crittical angle as an additional means of getting your attention, kind of like the tractor asking you if you "really want to do what you are attempting to do". You could overide it with the push of a button but at least you will have been warned before testing the integrety of the ROPS and the seat belt.

 

[Soundguy]

If you put the rops on the tractor you need to make the operator wear a seat belt to get the benifits. This is an active system in which the operator must chose to participate. He could be crushed under the roll bar otherwise. The much better option is to stop it from turning over in the first palce, a passive system that replaces large amounts of steel with much smaller amounts of silicone chips.

The falacy in your argument iswide.. your hypothetical roll detection system would provide NO safety for a non powered roll.. ie.. a side roll from hitting a rock or hole.. sure.. might kill the engine or clutch everything.. but if the maches going over.. the drive will just have to be satisfied that the engine won't be running when it rolls over on him???

rops are also expanded into fops and full canopies for other purposes.

If the magic easy to build and install clarivoyant rollover detection system was such a good idea, OSHA would have required it instead of rops structures.. (guess not huh...) Again.. it if was a cheap, easy awesome idea.. it would be in production and somebody would be getting rich off it..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Oh yeah.. forgot to mention.. your comment about rops and seatbelt usage is hand in hand. no seatbelt, no rops.. no rops.. no seatbelt.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

please, someone send this thread to John Deere, I need a job and they need an edge on the competition!

It is a matter of some if-then statement programed in basic, nothing to it

How much are un-dead farmers worth?

If it was a comercially feasable idea.. them green tractors would already have it.

I don't doubt eventually you will see AI intervention on tractors.. but not right now. Heck.. we are just now seeing that technology in cars with crash avoidance systems. up untill now it's been easier to install seatbelts, and airbags and anti lock brakes, energy absorbing K frames, safety glass.. etc. See a pattern here?

soundguy

 

[Egon]

Steve, I can see your headed to a drive by wire system which would be intriguing.

Same as fly by wire for those planes that are intrinsically unstable and need the computer to fly as the human pilot cannot process and act quickly enough.

Don't some of the green machines have a transmission that selects gears and shifts to maintain a consistent speed?

 

[NBstunter]

yikes gotta keep your foot on the clutch when pulling stuff!!

 

[tallyho8]

I think that one of the reasons that manufacturers don't try to make a roll-over proof machine is liability. Right now you are warned that a tractor can roll if certain precautions are not implemented and if you fail to do so it is your fault.

If the manufacturer sells a roll-over proof machine, you can bet that some fool will figure a way to make it roll over and get killed and then the manufacturer will face a huge lawsuit because his roll-over proof machine rolled over.

 

[Steve C]

soundguy[/QUOTE]The falacy in your argument iswide.. your hypothetical roll detection system would provide NO safety for a non powered roll.. ie.. a side roll from hitting a rock or hole and not prevent it.

I never suggested that ROPS should be removed from tractors,

only that it is better to stop them from turning over in the first place. Avoiding the chance of personel injury, the hassle of getting the tractor back on its wheels without doing further damage and not to mention having to clean up the diesel, crankcase oil and engine coolant that leaks out when you turn one of these things upside down.

Some manufacturer will be the first to install such a system. It will cost very little to produce. Then everybody else will be taking the money that they planned on spending on new decals for the new models year improvements and spending it on a little black box instead trying to catch up to the new industry leaders.

I bet many people thought that automatic/hydrostatic transmissions and power steering would never catch on also.

Way to expensive and nobody needs it. The cost of producing tose 2 items is hugely more expensive that a couple onces of silicone chips.