Global Warming News

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   / Global Warming News #91  
I guess it comes down to the definition of 'extreme'. I am not talking about catastrophies. I don't think the early climatologists were either. Something like the current cold snap across the US south, the UK, etc. is an extreme. Comparable weather only has been recorded a few times since records began.

Which is really only what? 150 years or so of instrument recorded temperatures for some parts of the world? Hardly enough to predict climate the next few years much less the next 100 or so.

We know they used to grow wine grapes in England. We know the Thames used to freeze solid enough for them to hold a Winter Carnival on it. Which one is an 'extreme' and which one is 'normal'? Neither happen today... is today's non-warm, non-cold an 'extreme'?
 
   / Global Warming News #92  
A few comments on previous posts:

Old growth forests: A very politicized issue with lots of lies. I managed timber on a district that was very productive. We had a young biologist visit an area that we planned to log. He came back excited about how great the old growth and owl habitat there was there. Sorry, it wasn稚 old growth葉he trees were about 80 years old. I counted the rings myself. And we had photos from fire lookouts from about the 1920痴 that showed a young stand in the area. We could manage stands to produce old growth conditions in much less than the mandated 200 years, even on poorer sites. But politicians got involved and the committee that was set up to develop an owl management plan excluded those excellent scientists who advocated active management. I, for one, don稚 trust politicians from either side.

There is a group of scientists who are very influential in the climate research arena. They have invested their entire careers investigating the possibility of global warming, then when convinced, they publicized the notion that earth is warming due to man痴 influence. I suspect that given contrary data, they can稚 believe it, they deny it and work to discredit anyone who disagrees with them. After all, their life痴 work may have been wasted. Just my opinion, but it is a fact that some of the people at the heart of Climategate have worked on the question since the ?0痴. Doesn稚 mean they are right. The Brits are investigating the CRU, by the way.

There is no debate in the media because the media folks believe the alarmists. They have not read the 2558 page IPCC report critically, they haven稚 looked at the references to check for validity or whether conflicting data was considered. The reporters you hear and read are not qualified, they got their BA in journalism, so they report what they are spoon fed and write what agrees with their world and political view. This is why they have not taken the skeptics seriously, even though many skeptics have impressive credentials. For example, a recent quarter page article in the Oregonian newspaper about Climategate simply listed the charges that developed from the emails and repeated the answers from the CRU people whose email was hacked. There was no attempt to check those answers. For example, the mention of using 溺ike痴 nature trick to hide the decline was answered by the CRU folks by saying that the word �rick was a common term by scientists to mean something clever and didn稚 indicate deceit and that痴 what was printed But a search of those 1,000 or so emails never turned up the word �rick in that context. The reporter didn稚 check on the assertion, she simply repeated what the CRU said.

Then there are the lists of scientists who support and lists who question global warming. The problem with both lists is the lack of qualifications. I have BS & MS degrees in Forest Science. The criteria allow me to add my name to either listæ‚* haven稚. Those lists mean nothing; they are just attempts to sell one side or the other.

And yes, even though 877 snow depth records were set across the country last month, this means nothing in terms of the debate. Even if warming is happening, there will be year to year variations, with some unusually cold years.

Global warming is a very important issue. No one knows whether it is happening or not. The question is very complex and the models are crude with many unfounded assumptions. Before we spend $ trillions, we need to get the science right.
 
   / Global Warming News #93  
pilot....is the implication here that the lumber industry and those employed by the lumber industry are disinterested parties in how the resource is exploited? :D:D:D:D

Again, to my mind, the notion that countries around the world have somehow been hoodwinked into committing scarce resources into remediation efforts unnecessarily is questionable.
 
   / Global Warming News #94  
"To imply there's not been a debate is just incorrect. Public debate on climate change has been underway for at least two decades."
Cite sources please. Where? When? Who?

Al Gore has never debated anyone who has asked him. He has self appointed himself to this throne. But unwilling to pit his facts against anyone who has offer to debate him in open public forum.

"There's enough consensus now on this issue that countries arround the world are committing significant resources to it."
France just exempeted many businesses, especially power generation from any carbon taxes and CO2 limits. Many Euro countries are trying to get there carbon, and CO2 limits raised.

"There is also consensus that there are significant consequences to delaying remediation efforts."
What consequences? Millions of years ago, when the dinos roamed the earth, the earth was hotter than now. By as much as 7 degrees. Much hotter that even the most "Pie-in-the-sky" computer models predict now. Life flourished. It was a time of the greatest variation of plant life ever, as well as most abundance. Will a warmer earth bring back the dinosaurs?
That could be real trouble, and also an oppertunity for great Bar-Be_queing.
Dinoburger anyone?;)

"As the world's largest emitter of CO2 on a per-capita basis, we need to be part of this effort."
Ummmmm......I have read that China is now king of that hill. The per-capita ploy is another twist to say we emit the most.

We use a lot of energy in the United States, and we are most efficent at using energy.

And Eddie gave out the biggest hint. IT'S THE SUN THAT HEATS THE PLANET.
 
   / Global Warming News #95  
"Comparable weather only has been recorded a few times....."????

I remember in the 60's and 70's when we had two weeks that never got above zero (Cincinnati). So far, 8 ABOVE zero is our coldest this winter. In 1937 and 1976, the Ohio River froze at Cincinnati. This is NOT an extreme winter, at least not yet.

It is normal for weather to fluctuate. It's also pretty well known that the forecasters can't forecast two weeks with accuracy. We should believe they can forecast 50 or 100 years?

How can you claim this is one of the coldest winters on record.....and claim that "Global Warming" is a real issue????

Eddie Walker is on target.

Ken

Well, how far from normal would you consider extreme? Again, it is a matter of definition. You mention four cold events in Cinn. Out of 150 years or so of weather records, four events would be extremes I think.

Ken, I never said this is one of the coldest winters on record. Some locations are having a pretty good cold snap. That isn't the same thing. You would have to combine the winter temps from many locations around the globe and compare that to an average to say it is a cold winter. Locally, some people are seeing some extreme cold this winter.

I am not convinced the ability to forecast, in detail, the weather for a given location 3-5 days out has anything to do with the ability to decide what global conditions will be in the future. I would suspect anyone's science credentials who makes such a statement.

When the local/regional weather forecast is given, all of the inputs to that forecast already exist. Low/high pressure fronts, location of the jet stream, approaching weather systems, current temps in many locations, current wind speeds, etc.

If forecasting the global conditions 50-100 years in advance, a whole set of other data would be needed, some of which doesn't exist yet. It's a cheap and meaningless shot in my opinion. The two problems don't have a lot in common.
Dave.
 
   / Global Warming News #96  
Eddie,

To imply there's not been a debate is just incorrect. Public debate on climate change has been underway for at least two decades.

There's enough consensus now on this issue that countries arround the world are committing significant resources to it.

One of the biggest challenges that exist in the global warming issue is that none of them will debate. NOT ONE of them. Even when Al Gore has testified in front of congress, no questions are allowed. It's so one sided that it's become a big reason that so many people have started to question what they have to hide.

You say that there has been public debate for 20 years. That would indicate that finding proof or evidence of those debates would be easy. I'd love to read about those debates. I'd find it interesting.

A concensous is not science. Only provable and repeatable facts are science. Your so called concensous is a minority of scientists who have been discredited as liars and fabricators. They don't have any science or proof to back up their claims, and they have now gone so far as to destroy their documentation. Doesn't that raise any red flags? Destroying all the original data with the excuse that it took up too much room. I don't know what is worse, the fact that they lied about it, or that's the limit of how smart they are in making up a lie.

When you say countries around the world are commiting significant resourse, you really mean those countries want the US to commit significant resourses towards their pockets so the leaders of those countries can get rich off of US taxpayers.

Lets have the debate and openly share the science. The day that happens, all doubt and suspision will be removed. That day has never happened, and it never wil. There is a reason for it, and it's not because of all the requests from the deniers to have a debate. One side really wants to debate, the other side just says the debate is over without actualy debating anybody.

What am I missing?

Eddie
 
   / Global Warming News #97  
Funny you mentioned this, quess what that day is allready here. There was a story about a guy that shot what he thought was a polar bear. Well it wasn't, infact he even got in trouble for shooting an illegal bear. After many brains came together they finally decided it was a cross breed between polar and grizz. The bear was beautifull.

Well, there you go. I think the polar bears will make it. The number of garbage dumps and their proximity to the north pole is directly proportional to the increase in Arctic temperatures. Sad, but sort of ironic too.
Dave.
 
   / Global Warming News #98  
Eddie,

If you haven't been tuned into the climate change debate then you can certainly research it. I recommend you start at wikipedia.

And efforts have been underway in many if not most developed countries for decades now. I know of significant examples in Germany, the UK, Denmark, Sweden and Japan. I'm sure if you cared to do the research you'd find plenty of examples and additional information about these and other countries as well.

Remediation will be much more difficult if not impossible without the cooperation of the world's major contributors which include the US.

I think your characterizations of the climate science community is incorrect Eddie and it seems to me that you've taken a very partisan political position here.

Again, there's no global warming conspiracy. Your choice in acceptting that fact is certainly yours to make.
 
   / Global Warming News #99  
Now that's an endangered species....a Polarizzly. :D
 
   / Global Warming News #100  
Eddie,

If you haven't been tuned into the climate change debate then you can certainly research it. I recommend you start at wikipedia.

And efforts have been underway in many if not most developed countries for decades now. I know of significant examples in Germany, the UK, Denmark, Sweden and Japan. I'm sure if you cared to do the research you'd find plenty of examples and additional information about these and other countries as well.

Remediation will be much more difficult if not impossible without the cooperation of the world's major contributors which include the US.

I think your characterizations of the climate science community is incorrect Eddie and it seems to me that you've taken a very partisan political position here.

Again, there's no global warming conspiracy. Your choice in acceptting that fact is certainly yours to make.

My reason for replying to your posts is that I hope it gives others that might be curios about the debate some ideas of what both sides feel. I realize that we will never change each others minds. It is what it is, and I'm fine with that. The bigger pictures is that the tide has turned and the truth is coming out. The emails were HUGE and pretty much put an end to the argument. A few years ago when this topic came up, it was a much differet debate. Now there are a few of you who still believe, but that number is shrinking.

Wikipedia is OK for basic information, but it's extremly liberal on politics. I looked up the Hockey Stick on there and they actually have Michael Mann's graph and site him as an expert. He's one of the main guys who's been discredited and proven to be a liar. His efforst to eliminate the Medival Warming Period are too much for even those who used to defend him. He's now an outcast and will soon disapear completely.

Your reply failed to mention any debates, but instead sites the countries that are pushing for global warming. Even though they failed to meet their own emission and carbon goals, they feel that they can tell us what to do. Why just the US and not India, China and Russia? Could it be because those countries just laughed at them and don't even pretend like it's something they will do?

For a debate to take place, you need experts from both sides of the isle. When you have meetings with just those how support global warming, regardless of what country it's in, it's not a debate.

The reason you can't site a single debate is that it's never happened.

Thank you for your reply, it was what I had hoped for.

Eddie
 
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