Solar installation

[eepete]

Looks great :thumbsup: ! it's an interesting consideration when you do a project like this and weigh grid tie vs. battery. You can look at the cost of the batteries vs. the cost of a generator. From your cost list, it sure looks to me like the batteries are cheaper than a generator. Jumpers are nice and clean!

I know you saw my solar setup post. I already had a generator, which is part of why the grid tie only was the route I went.

As for the higher peak power, somewhere in all these solar post I had the derating factor for the panels. It goes both ways, so as the weather gets cooler the panels will put out more. Mine were rated at 25 degrees C. Also panels tend to run a bit better than the rated in order to guarantee that they will meet both the initial power spec, and the "10 years later" power spec.

When my automation stuff is done, we'll have to talk....

Pete

 

[Rob-D]

Looks great :thumbsup: ! it's an interesting consideration when you do a project like this and weight grid tie vs. battery. You can look at the cost of the batteries vs. the cost of a generator. From your cost list, it sure looks to me like the batteries are cheaper than a generator. Jumpers are nice and clean!

I know you saw my solar setup post. I already had a generator, which is part of why the grid tie only was the route I went.

As for the higher peak power, somewhere in all these solar post I had the derating factor for the panels. It goes both ways, so as the weather gets cooler the panels will put out more. Mine were rated at 25 degrees C. Also panels tend to run a bit better than the rated in order to guarantee that they will meet both the initial power spec, and the "10 years later" power spec.

When my automation stuff is done, we'll have to talk....

Pete

Thanks Pete,
I do have a 6.8KW diesel Chinese generator but it is not in the system. Boy is it loud! I'll have to work it a bit.
I was thinking about getting a PTO generator but that's down the road.

Shoot me a PM any time you want to chat.

Best,
Rob

 

[BrierPatch]

Thanks for the info and sharing. Good Job ! :thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

Part of my cost of payback figures are that a 175w panel will only produce 65-70KwH per month.

70Kw from the grid is only costing me about $7 per month. So a $900 panel that only saves me $7 per month is not a good investment for me. It would take 128 months to pay for itself privided It lasts that long. And thats not coundting all the other stuff that goes along with it.

I currently am using between 1800 and 2200 Kwh per month. It would require about 30 panels for me to be self sufficent if I went solar only. Thats 27k right there and havent started figuring batteries, controlers, inverter, etc.

I think the stuff is going to have to get WAY cheaper before I jump on board.

But I also have affordable and reliable power. In 5 years, I have only had one major outage and that only lasted 4 hrs when remenats of hurricane Ike (i think) cane through last september.

 

[Rob-D]

Part of my cost of payback figures are that a 175w panel will only produce 65-70KwH per month.

70Kw from the grid is only costing me about $7 per month. So a $900 panel that only saves me $7 per month is not a good investment for me. It would take 128 months to pay for itself privided It lasts that long. And thats not coundting all the other stuff that goes along with it.

I currently am using between 1800 and 2200 Kwh per month. It would require about 30 panels for me to be self sufficent if I went solar only. Thats 27k right there and havent started figuring batteries, controlers, inverter, etc.

I think the stuff is going to have to get WAY cheaper before I jump on board.

But I also have affordable and reliable power. In 5 years, I have only had one major outage and that only lasted 4 hrs when remenats of hurricane Ike (i think) cane through last september.

LD1,
I understand your perspective.
The only thing I see is that 1400 watts of power (really about 1600 to 1800) on a sunny day will give me, in an 8 hour day, 1.4 x 8 or 11.2 KW a day. Lets say there are 21 days in the month that are sunny. That gives me 21 x 11.2 or about 235 KWH, not 70. Also we do all our heavy work during the day, cloths washing, etc. If I get an electric car that gets charged during the day too. The other thing is that I have cheap power here. Yes , I have to make my own alternators and windmills but I'm retired so the time is mine. I can make a windmill in about 3 or 4 days and a hydro alternator in about 1 or 2. Now add that and I'm way ahead.

Rob

 

[LD1]

LD1,
I understand your perspective.
The only thing I see is that 1400 watts of power (really about 1600 to 1800) on a sunny day will give me, in an 8 hour day, 1.4 x 8 or 11.2 KW a day. Lets say there are 21 days in the month that are sunny. That gives me 21 x 11.2 or about 235 KWH, not 70.
Rob

The 70kwh I was refering to was for ONE 175w panel in a month. .175 x 12hrs a day x 30 days =63. I was being optimistic as well. This would be an absolute best case scenerio.

So 1 pannel that cost $900 will make "at best" 63 kw per month. 10cents per kwh current rate, that is $6.3 per month saved.

My current electric usage is around 2000kwh a month. 2000/63=~31 pannels I would need.

 

[Rob-D]

The 70kwh I was refering to was for ONE 175w panel in a month. .175 x 12hrs a day x 30 days =63. I was being optimistic as well. This would be an absolute best case scenerio.

So 1 pannel that cost $900 will make "at best" 63 kw per month. 10cents per kwh current rate, that is $6.3 per month saved.

My current electric usage is around 2000kwh a month. 2000/63=~31 pannels I would need.

Thanks for the clarification, as you can see I was going on the low side.
2,000 KW a month, that's a lot.
My thinking is that part of going off grid is cutting usage too. WE store grains and I've shut down the freezers and vacuum packed our grains for long term storage.
We use a high speed spin dryer and clothes racks. The high speed dryer removes so much soap and water that the clothes dry in 20 minutes to an hour or so.
Our stove is now gas and we use oil heat and hot water but I want to build a solar hot water supplemental heater also.
Electric is used at a minimum here. Sure when I turn on the MIG but even that isn't bad for the length of time I use it. Even my lathes are low HP.
I'd say I'll be under 600 KWH in a month and probably well under 450 when I'm done.
So our electric runs the furnace motor (radiant floor heat that's very efficient) and the oil hot water right now but I built a small house so we don't go through a lot of fuel even in our cold winters here. Also the house is designed to maximize the elements with a sun room on the south side that adds warmth to the house if the temperature gets up to 30 or 40F and it's a sunny day. In the summer maple trees shade it. I also have areas of the house that I can shut down and a north side pantry that stays cool for food storage.
We also have a soap stone Tulikivi fire place with a bake oven that stays warm for about 12 or 14 hours after the fire goes out.
Of course all our lamps are CFL or LED.

Rob

 

[LD1]

Thanks for the clarification, as you can see I was going on the low side.
2,000 KW a month, that's a lot.
My thinking is that part of going off grid is cutting usage too. WE store grains and I've shut down the freezers and vacuum packed our grains for long term storage.
We use a high speed spin dryer and clothes racks. The high speed dryer removes so much soap and water that the clothes dry in 20 minutes to an hour or so.
Our stove is now gas and we use oil heat and hot water but I want to build a solar hot water supplemental heater also.
Electric is used at a minimum here. Sure when I turn on the MIG but even that isn't bad for the length of time I use it. Even my lathes are low HP.
I'd say I'll be under 600 KWH in a month and probably well under 450 when I'm done.
So our electric runs the furnace motor (radiant floor heat that's very efficient) and the oil hot water right now but I built a small house so we don't go through a lot of fuel even in our cold winters here. Also the house is designed to maximize the elements with a sun room on the south side that adds warmth to the house if the temperature gets up to 30 or 40F and it's a sunny day. In the summer maple trees shade it. I also have areas of the house that I can shut down and a north side pantry that stays cool for food storage.
We also have a soap stone Tulikivi fire place with a bake oven that stays warm for about 12 or 14 hours after the fire goes out.
Of course all our lamps are CFL or LED.

Rob

Wow, I wish I could get by with only using 600kwh a month.

Right now my biggest two users are the heat pump and hot water heater. It is a marathon and very efficcient but still uses a good bit of electric.

My lowest usage ever was about 800kwh. That was when I first moved in and it was one of them months that stayed about 70 degrees in the day and 60 at night so no AC use or heat. And of course that was before the 30x50 garage that I am always in now and before the goldfish pond with a 250w pump and before the two motion detector halogen lights that total 5 150w bulbs. It all adds up.

But even if I could cut my usage, the COP would still be the same, (actually a little more because rates are lower the more you use). But regardless of usage, a $900 panel will still only save at best $7 a month.

I will probabally never invest in alternative energy until my local coop will no net metering. The main reason is because I still want to be grid tied and not have to worry about batteries and such. And when I am not at home, and demand is low and I am still producing power, I can sell back to the power company.

My ultimate longterm goal is to actually get a check from the coop every month. I wont jump in with both feet, just start small and add to the system as money allows until I can produce more than I use. But again, they will have to start doing net metering first. And the cost of alternative energy has to come down a bunch. Like a 5 year COP before I would be interested.

But I am really interested in your windmills and waterwheels. You said you were using alternators. If you dont mind, could you share some details. Like what type of alternators to look for? Are you using one wire alternators. Of are you using ones with seperate regulators? How are you energizing the field windings? How much power are they actually making you?

I have pleany of access to old car parts for free (I am a hoarder) and I enjoy building/fabricating things. I have been wanting to expirement around with this sort of thing, but since you have already done it, I figured I'd ask you what you have found to work the best.

 

[jinjimbob]

Wow, I wish I could get by with only using 600kwh a month.

Right now my biggest two users are the heat pump and hot water heater. It is a marathon and very efficcient but still uses a good bit of electric.

Have you looked into a heat pump water heater? They're pretty easy to install, just a swap out, the only new thing needed is a drain line.

I'm all electric at our house, used 1100 last month, heat pump and water heat pump.

 

[Rob-D]

Wow, I wish I could get by with only using 600kwh a month.

Right now my biggest two users are the heat pump and hot water heater. It is a marathon and very efficcient but still uses a good bit of electric.

My lowest usage ever was about 800kwh. That was when I first moved in and it was one of them months that stayed about 70 degrees in the day and 60 at night so no AC use or heat. And of course that was before the 30x50 garage that I am always in now and before the goldfish pond with a 250w pump and before the two motion detector halogen lights that total 5 150w bulbs. It all adds up.

But even if I could cut my usage, the COP would still be the same, (actually a little more because rates are lower the more you use). But regardless of usage, a $900 panel will still only save at best $7 a month.

I will probabally never invest in alternative energy until my local coop will no net metering. The main reason is because I still want to be grid tied and not have to worry about batteries and such. And when I am not at home, and demand is low and I am still producing power, I can sell back to the power company.

My ultimate longterm goal is to actually get a check from the coop every month. I wont jump in with both feet, just start small and add to the system as money allows until I can produce more than I use. But again, they will have to start doing net metering first. And the cost of alternative energy has to come down a bunch. Like a 5 year COP before I would be interested.

But I am really interested in your windmills and waterwheels. You said you were using alternators. If you dont mind, could you share some details. Like what type of alternators to look for? Are you using one wire alternators. Of are you using ones with seperate regulators? How are you energizing the field windings? How much power are they actually making you?

I have pleany of access to old car parts for free (I am a hoarder) and I enjoy building/fabricating things. I have been wanting to expirement around with this sort of thing, but since you have already done it, I figured I'd ask you what you have found to work the best.

LD1,
I just opened my co-op bill before I read your post. Right now I'm under 580 KWh a month but even my auto-trip outside lights are CFLs.

What I will do is start a projects thread with pictures when I do the alterntors.
I run NdFeB magnets in the armature and wind or rewind, the 3ph alternator to give me a specific power at a specific rpm. I have a collection of enameled wire so i can contour the alternator just the way i want it. If you have a lathe or access to one, you can do most of the work.

I run the output voltages higher than my batteries when the alternator is running at speed and just use diodes (schottky for a low forward voltage drop). My MPPT regulates the power for battery charging so even if the voltage varies it still goes to the batteries as a charge just as long as i keep it above the battery voltage itself.

You can PM me if you have any in depth questions.

Rob