How many hours is too many hours?

   / How many hours is too many hours? #11  
at those hours I'd expect it to be wanting a clutch.. and if a gasser.. it will be showing reasonable engine wear.. but should still plow a field. if a diesel.. will likely still hold out another couple thou before it eats something major like an injector pump.

all this assumes good care and maintenance .. etc.

you can kill a brand new tractor in 1 hour.. or you can take care of an antique so that it is near mint after 5 decades.

soundguy

Please excuse me because I'm a complete noob when it comes to tractors. I'm going this afternoon to look at an International 444 that has 4200 hours on it. I did a little calculating trying to relate that to car miles and figured that an average of 60MPH that would be the auto equivalent of a car with 250,000 miles on it. That sounds pretty worn out to me, but what do I know?

At what point is a tractor considered 'worn out'?
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #12  
Please excuse me because I'm a complete noob when it comes to tractors. I'm going this afternoon to look at an International 444 that has 4200 hours on it. I did a little calculating trying to relate that to car miles and figured that an average of 60MPH that would be the auto equivalent of a car with 250,000 miles on it. That sounds pretty worn out to me, but what do I know?

At what point is a tractor considered 'worn out'?

Gasser or diesel?

Being a newby, you need to know how to checkout a used tractor with a lot of hours on it. If you can, take someone with you who knows tractors.

If you see oil/fluid spots on the ground, you might think about passing on this one (bad seals, cracks in the block, etc).

If it's hard to start, you could have carburetor or injector/high pressure injector pump problems (diesel). Carburetors are less expensive to repair/replace than diesel injectors or injector pumps.

If it smokes--white smoke might mean coolant leaks, blue smoke means oil burning (valves, rings), black smoke may mean problems in the fuel/air system.

Drive it in all gears. Look for clutch problems (slipping, hard to shift into gear, jumping out of gear, won't go into one or more gears, etc). Check the two stage clutch to be sure that clutch works properly. Clutch repairs usually means splitting the tractor--can be expensive.

Check the 3 point hitch operation, preferably with a heavy impliment attached. If it has problems lifting the load or if it won't hold the load in position, then you have hydraulic system problems.

Check the tires for wear, cracks, dry rot. Rear ag tires are expensive to replace.

Also be aware that replacement parts for these old tractors may be hard to find and expensive.

Good luck.
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #13  
at those hours I'd expect it to be wanting a clutch.. and if a gasser.. it will be showing reasonable engine wear.. but should still plow a field. if a diesel.. will likely still hold out another couple thou before it eats something major like an injector pump.

all this assumes good care and maintenance .. etc.

you can kill a brand new tractor in 1 hour.. or you can take care of an antique so that it is near mint after 5 decades.

soundguy

Yeah agree about the clutch - however it very much depends how it's been driven. Our 135 has had it's first clutch at just over 2000 hours but it's now at 6000 hours and still going well.

Nice thing about it is a complete new clutch won't cost more than a few hundred dollars and a mechanic could split the tractor, replace the clutch and put it back together in 3 hours. And it may not even need the clutch yet.

As for the engine, can't comment on the gassers, we never used them in this country, but I'd bet that diesel will still be running sweet as a nut. Plenty of those tractors still running with 8 thousand hours on them and no major rebuilds. Maybe lost a few horse power over the years but who cares :D




Gasser or diesel?

Being a newby, you need to know how to checkout a used tractor with a lot of hours on it. If you can, take someone with you who knows tractors.

If you see oil/fluid spots on the ground, you might think about passing on this one (bad seals, cracks in the block, etc).

If it's hard to start, you could have carburetor or injector/high pressure injector pump problems (diesel). Carburetors are less expensive to repair/replace than diesel injectors or injector pumps.

If it smokes--white smoke might mean coolant leaks, blue smoke means oil burning (valves, rings), black smoke may mean problems in the fuel/air system.

Drive it in all gears. Look for clutch problems (slipping, hard to shift into gear, jumping out of gear, won't go into one or more gears, etc). Check the two stage clutch to be sure that clutch works properly. Clutch repairs usually means splitting the tractor--can be expensive.

Check the 3 point hitch operation, preferably with a heavy impliment attached. If it has problems lifting the load or if it won't hold the load in position, then you have hydraulic system problems.

Check the tires for wear, cracks, dry rot. Rear ag tires are expensive to replace.

Also be aware that replacement parts for these old tractors may be hard to find and expensive.

Good luck.

The tractor is going to be minimum 35 years old with 4000 hours under it's belt! Of course it is going to have a few oil leaks around the engine and maybe some of the other transmission seals. Just means you may have to pour a little extra oil in every month or so. Consider it a running cost.

These old tractors didn't really get shifted. You set it in a gear and set off. I can't remember if it was a syncro gearbox off the top of my head but either way I doub't it'll be very smooth. But I bet it will be pretty bombproof. Maybe the selector forks will have a little wear, but I doub't it at only 4000 hours.

3 point hitch will almost certainly drop when you turn the engine off, as they did from new. However it should still lift as you say.

Parts - at least in this country, there were so many thousands of these things made, theres hundreds been broken and many comapnies now make pattern parts.



Finally, to put 4000 hours into persepctive.

On a farm in the 60s and 70's in this country, on average one of these tractors they would have about 800 hours a year put on them. Today we put about 1000 - 1200 hours on a tractor a year.

So really, this tractor may have only done 4 or 5 years hard work before basically being mothballed for the next 30 years.
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #14  
I had no trouble finding parts for my IH424 but I only needed a few things in the 10 or so years that I owned it.

The transmission on the IH444 is not synchronized. The will grind the gears if you are not familiar with a crash box tranny. But you would get used to it.
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #15  
Double clutching will help with grinding, mine works better during upshift than downshifting. Not much call for downshifting on the fly with a tractor anyway.

Sean
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #16  
good way to get into trouble.. especially if pulling a load..might not be able to get back in gear.. etc.

soundguy
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #17  
I'm going this afternoon to look at an International 444 that has 4200 hours on it. I did a little calculating trying to relate that to car miles and figured that an average of 60MPH that would be the auto equivalent of a car with 250,000 miles on it. That sounds pretty worn out to me, but what do I know?

At what point is a tractor considered 'worn out'?


I'm sure you "know" a lot:thumbsup:, but your comparison is not real accurate. Tractors are more closely compared to big rig's than to passenger cars. Most big rigs can go 1 million miles without needing a rebuild. Some, with good maintenance, go much more than that.

Most old small tractor 3&4 cylinder engines are heavier than small block V8's. That should tell you something about how beefy they are built. Plus, they turn much lower rpm's than a car.

Take a look at the machine and determine how well maintained. It may be good for 4000 more hours.

As far as "worn out", that really never happens. Tractors break on occasion, catch fire, get rolled or have trees fall on them --> but the OLD tractors can always be rebuilt to perform as new when they are worn. Typically doing that is not very hard or expensive as you can do it yourself. I'm very skeptical about NEW tractors that spin at 2x the rpm to get the same hp and have light duty structure. Those ARE probably accurately compared to an automobile and they may get worn out.
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #18  
I had a Massey 85 for many years. I rebuilt the top end at a little over 10,000 hours. The engine was still running strong several years later when I sold it. Just kept the fluids fresh and kept it tuned up.
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #19  
Here in europe 500 hrs would be as new, less than 5000 hrs good used, and 10000 hrs worn out even for Fendt and JD.
 
   / How many hours is too many hours? #20  
There's a LOT of variability in the quality of old tractors. For some reason, many, many people thinks it's acceptable to leave a tractor sitting in the middle of a pasture when it's not being used, never touching it, never changing fluids, etc. until its a gummed up, rusted out old hulk. Then it's repainted and put up for sale: "good tractor, low hours..."

Just like in cars, leaking oil is almost a sure sign that fluids haven't been changed. Sludge builds up and blocks oil from reaching seals and gaskets, which then dry up and start leaking. And of course, availability of maintenance and parts is a major consideration.

I started out spending a LOT of time hunting for a used tractor and doing hours and hours of research on the internet, talking to people, etc. I ended up just spending a little more money and getting a new one.

- Ruark
 

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