Just bought a 146d with 700 hrs...ran great when i purchased. I found a fuel line that had been crushed, i assume by belly mower raising up and contacting the wrong spot. I got another line, bent it to match, and installed. Before installing i turned petcock for fuel to off. After installing, tractor started right up, then died off as if out of fuel. I had not returned the petcock to an open position. I then opened petcock and tried starting repeatedly. Nothing. made sure i was getting fuel (got some in mouth, almost puked). I can hear fuel pump running. I tried starting fluid. Engine turns but wont ever ignite, some lite vapor/smoke/fumes coming out of exhaust as it try to turn it over. all fluids good at this point...plenty diesel...plenty oil...plenty hydraulic/atf fluid....help!
Noob...cant get ym146d to start
- Thread starter firstymar
- Start date
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jerrybob
Elite Member
Sounds like you need to bleed your fuel lines. Go to Yanmar Tractor Parts - Shop Online and look under Tech Info. Read bleeding your fuel system. Should solve your problem.
284 International
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
- Tractor
- International Harvester 284
Jerrybob covered it, but don't spray starter fluid into the engine trying to get it to fire!
The instructions on Hoye's website are good, and it's redundant to write them out. Here is the direct link.
The instructions on Hoye's website are good, and it's redundant to write them out. Here is the direct link.
Thanks to both of you for responding...This process solved my problem with minimal tinkering. Fired right up. Thanks Jerrybob!
....also....284, why is it bad to use starting fluid? Is there a chance Ive done any damage while trying to start?
Thanks again, this was my first post on this site as a member...huge success! Look forward to benefiting from all your contributions/experience.
....also....284, why is it bad to use starting fluid? Is there a chance Ive done any damage while trying to start?
Thanks again, this was my first post on this site as a member...huge success! Look forward to benefiting from all your contributions/experience.
sacsr
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 241
- Location
- Kinston, NC
- Tractor
- Yanmar 187D Terramite T5C Bush Hog D4-10
Welcome to the forum....a few of us are owners of the gt14 and 146 models. Hope you enjoy yours! Pictures!!! We all like to see pictures!
Scott
Scott
Pictures are coming i promise. I got this guy about a week and change ago in South East Mich. It came with the Yanmar Tiller, Yanmar belly mower, and Yanmar snowblower. Tractor looks really nice with an ok quality repaint in factory red. Love having a 3 point hitch on a tractor this small. I have 40 acres, with extensive gardens that need rototilled and alot of yard/meadow areas. Cant wait to use this baby..will post soon. If anyone still looking at this thread,,,im posting a new one to get help with temp and oil light/buzzer coming on. Thanks again guys!
Henhouse1
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2010
- Messages
- 96
- Tractor
- YanMar YM1610D
These engines already have such high compression that using ether can break pistons and/or rods. Some guys have just given the engine a "whiff" of it at the air cleaner, but it is definitely not advised.
284 International
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2010
- Messages
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- International Harvester 284
Firstymar, the short and useless answer is to not use ether because it will break stuff. That's not really an explanation though.
Diesels work by compressing air to a tremendous pressure, then injecting a tiny amount of fuel into the cylinder while the air is compressed and thus heated up. That heat auto-ignites the fuel. It burns, producing expanding gas, providing the force to drive the piston back down. The fuel is injected into the combustion area of the cylinder, not into an intake manifold like in a gasoline engine. In other words, the intake manifold and valves are dry.
Once you understand how the engines work, you can see why it is dangerous to use starting fluid. The fuel has to be injected late in the compression stroke, so that it ignites late enough to not be fighting the piston's upward stroke, trying to run the engine backwards.
Ether is used because it is extremely flammable. That is, it ignites easily. That's why it works in a gas engine. Diesel is much tougher to light in comparison.
So, here's the danger: In these little engines, the amount of fuel burned at each cycle is minute. Think about it: when running at 2400 rpm, a two cylinder engine in a tractor is pulsing 20 times each second. In an entire minute, the injectors have fired 1200 times. If you run your tractor for minute, can you even detect any change in the level of the fuel? It's a tiny amount in each pulse.
Compare that to how much starter fluid the normal person will dose their machine with. A brief pop of the button is likely more ether than the diesel tractor consumes in a minute of running at high rpm.
That is our dangerous situation: Way too much fuel that is much more easily burned than diesel. It's also being introduced at the wrong time, that is, at the beginning of the compression stroke. Set it up: Diesel has to be injected late in the compression stroke or it will auto ignite. Diesel is much more resistant to auto-ignition than ether, and ignites at higher temperatures. Ether has been introduced in much higher quantities than diesel would be, and as early as is possible in the compression stroke. A worse scenario isn't possible, really.
When the piston compresses the mixture of ether and air, it will auto ignite, but much too early. With the piston going one way, and the exploding ether going the other, something has to give. It may be a head gasket, the rings, the piston itself, a rod bending, or whatever the weakest point is at that moment.
Some heavy equipment has built in ether injection. So far as I or anybody else I've talked to has seen, these are all very large engines in comparison to our tiny engines, making the dose of ether much smaller in comparison. Larger engines also have more room to absorb the stresses.
I have used ether on diesels before, even little ones. I shouldn't, but have. Here is what I was taught: when using it, you want to give the tractor a "smell" of it. Think about the amount of ether it takes for you to be able to detect it through smell. That's how much you want to give.
Get the engine cranking, then give as brief a spurt as you can from the can away from the air intake, then sweep it across the intake as you do it. That sends just a tiny amount of vapor into the engine.
A caveat: None of my Yanmar machines have functioning Thermostarts in the first place. I also don't use or need ether on them. Same with glow plugged machines. The glow plug works by getting super hot-hot enough to make metal glow. Spraying ether down the gullet of something with the glow plugs or thermostart on will likely result in a terrifying fireball and/or explosion. So don't do that.
The tiny amount of ether that makes it through the air intake, filter and intake manifold is enough to burn, but not as violently explode as a spray of ether directly into the manifold will do. All I'm interested in is getting a tiny bit of extra heat in the system to help the diesel ignite. Sometimes it takes a couple sprays to get it to work, but I'm patient and take my time.
A better way to do it is use a block heater for a few hours, or use a hair dryer or shop light to pre-warm the intake and cylinder head, then run hot air through the intake with the hair dryer while it cranks. A battery booster set to "start" often does the trick alone. Pull-starting with a car or tractor will also work. Ether is a last-ditch, emergency device on little diesels, in my opinion. An engine that's refusing to start has issues to be addressed, barring environmental conditions far out of normal. Even then, it makes more sense to address those (by heating elements or what have you) than to risk damage to the engine.
I'm glad you got your tractor running!
Diesels work by compressing air to a tremendous pressure, then injecting a tiny amount of fuel into the cylinder while the air is compressed and thus heated up. That heat auto-ignites the fuel. It burns, producing expanding gas, providing the force to drive the piston back down. The fuel is injected into the combustion area of the cylinder, not into an intake manifold like in a gasoline engine. In other words, the intake manifold and valves are dry.
Once you understand how the engines work, you can see why it is dangerous to use starting fluid. The fuel has to be injected late in the compression stroke, so that it ignites late enough to not be fighting the piston's upward stroke, trying to run the engine backwards.
Ether is used because it is extremely flammable. That is, it ignites easily. That's why it works in a gas engine. Diesel is much tougher to light in comparison.
So, here's the danger: In these little engines, the amount of fuel burned at each cycle is minute. Think about it: when running at 2400 rpm, a two cylinder engine in a tractor is pulsing 20 times each second. In an entire minute, the injectors have fired 1200 times. If you run your tractor for minute, can you even detect any change in the level of the fuel? It's a tiny amount in each pulse.
Compare that to how much starter fluid the normal person will dose their machine with. A brief pop of the button is likely more ether than the diesel tractor consumes in a minute of running at high rpm.
That is our dangerous situation: Way too much fuel that is much more easily burned than diesel. It's also being introduced at the wrong time, that is, at the beginning of the compression stroke. Set it up: Diesel has to be injected late in the compression stroke or it will auto ignite. Diesel is much more resistant to auto-ignition than ether, and ignites at higher temperatures. Ether has been introduced in much higher quantities than diesel would be, and as early as is possible in the compression stroke. A worse scenario isn't possible, really.
When the piston compresses the mixture of ether and air, it will auto ignite, but much too early. With the piston going one way, and the exploding ether going the other, something has to give. It may be a head gasket, the rings, the piston itself, a rod bending, or whatever the weakest point is at that moment.
Some heavy equipment has built in ether injection. So far as I or anybody else I've talked to has seen, these are all very large engines in comparison to our tiny engines, making the dose of ether much smaller in comparison. Larger engines also have more room to absorb the stresses.
I have used ether on diesels before, even little ones. I shouldn't, but have. Here is what I was taught: when using it, you want to give the tractor a "smell" of it. Think about the amount of ether it takes for you to be able to detect it through smell. That's how much you want to give.
Get the engine cranking, then give as brief a spurt as you can from the can away from the air intake, then sweep it across the intake as you do it. That sends just a tiny amount of vapor into the engine.
A caveat: None of my Yanmar machines have functioning Thermostarts in the first place. I also don't use or need ether on them. Same with glow plugged machines. The glow plug works by getting super hot-hot enough to make metal glow. Spraying ether down the gullet of something with the glow plugs or thermostart on will likely result in a terrifying fireball and/or explosion. So don't do that.
The tiny amount of ether that makes it through the air intake, filter and intake manifold is enough to burn, but not as violently explode as a spray of ether directly into the manifold will do. All I'm interested in is getting a tiny bit of extra heat in the system to help the diesel ignite. Sometimes it takes a couple sprays to get it to work, but I'm patient and take my time.
A better way to do it is use a block heater for a few hours, or use a hair dryer or shop light to pre-warm the intake and cylinder head, then run hot air through the intake with the hair dryer while it cranks. A battery booster set to "start" often does the trick alone. Pull-starting with a car or tractor will also work. Ether is a last-ditch, emergency device on little diesels, in my opinion. An engine that's refusing to start has issues to be addressed, barring environmental conditions far out of normal. Even then, it makes more sense to address those (by heating elements or what have you) than to risk damage to the engine.
I'm glad you got your tractor running!
284,
You are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you. Ive got another challenge for your diesel expertise now. I posted another thread on oil temp light issue i was having....Well i went out for a test run to rototill a small patch...temp light never came on while i was working...probably 30 min in high outdoor temps...around 84 degrees. While working, i shutoff the motor to see if light came on. Both temp light and buzzer came on. I then drove it back to the garage, as i pulled in and parked, huge oil puddle under tractor. looked under hood...looks like coming out of the block? Head? its coming from up higher on the engine block, not the bottom...but not up where the injectors are. When i killed the engine and returned key to on position, temp light, oil light and buzzer all on. After and hour or so, buzzer stopped, but temp light stays on. Still on several hrs later. i drained oil, was blackish but not sludgy, didnt smell of diesel but im not that informed so i could be missing it. I think it might be a blown head gasket, but dont know how to confirm. I believe blown gasket due to overfilled crankcase. Any help you can give would be awesome. Thanks for all the info, you and everyone else too!
You are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you. Ive got another challenge for your diesel expertise now. I posted another thread on oil temp light issue i was having....Well i went out for a test run to rototill a small patch...temp light never came on while i was working...probably 30 min in high outdoor temps...around 84 degrees. While working, i shutoff the motor to see if light came on. Both temp light and buzzer came on. I then drove it back to the garage, as i pulled in and parked, huge oil puddle under tractor. looked under hood...looks like coming out of the block? Head? its coming from up higher on the engine block, not the bottom...but not up where the injectors are. When i killed the engine and returned key to on position, temp light, oil light and buzzer all on. After and hour or so, buzzer stopped, but temp light stays on. Still on several hrs later. i drained oil, was blackish but not sludgy, didnt smell of diesel but im not that informed so i could be missing it. I think it might be a blown head gasket, but dont know how to confirm. I believe blown gasket due to overfilled crankcase. Any help you can give would be awesome. Thanks for all the info, you and everyone else too!
Ginormous
Gold Member
On the temperature issue, I decided to add a temperature dial gauge. My YM1700 does not have a water pump (not sure if yours does) so it circulates the water by thermal convection. My model is known to have issues with overheating. I have also read that the sensors for the temperature light tend to go bad in these, but typically such that it turns on at too low a temperature. With all of that background, I am very pleased to have a temperature gauge -- it gives me a warm feeling, so to speak. 
I now know that my tractor tends to operate at around 195 F. It wasn't too tough to install either. Do a search in the forums on gauges, and you'll find instructions on how others have done it.
Also, keep in mind that if your tractor is already too hot, shutting it off suddenly is not a good idea. The fan for the radiator will stop blowing, and if there's a water pump, it will stop pumping. The result is that the already too hot engine will keep getting hotter for a little while. This could do some serious damage. The owners manual recommends reducing the idle and letting it run for several minutes like that to give the cooling system a chance to cool the engine.
I now know that my tractor tends to operate at around 195 F. It wasn't too tough to install either. Do a search in the forums on gauges, and you'll find instructions on how others have done it.Also, keep in mind that if your tractor is already too hot, shutting it off suddenly is not a good idea. The fan for the radiator will stop blowing, and if there's a water pump, it will stop pumping. The result is that the already too hot engine will keep getting hotter for a little while. This could do some serious damage.
The owners manual recommends reducing the idle and letting it run for several minutes like that to give the cooling system a chance to cool the engine.