Comparison EPA vs Standard Engine.

[NewTractorOz]

Hey Zonta. I'm unfamiliar with this site. maybe you can PM me with the details.

The WA company say they are the only authorized dealer but this is quite incorrect. The are no authorized dealers. They simply say this to spin a mystery web over the whole thing. My information is that Luzhong don't ever deal direct with westerners. They have good reasons for this. They have a ring of Chinese export companies handing their sales. The export companies are all independent from each other but all give you the impression they are the direct link to the factory. (As their web sites all look the same but have different managers.) Each company is the direct link to the factory , but not the only link. It's a dragon with many heads. You may deal with any one of these export companies. I have found them to be very patient and easy to deal with. They are also all very competitive amongst each other and will sell to anyone and try to give you a better price or better service. The end product is the same. (If you happen to get the right person.) So to say that someone has sole rights, as this particular WA company does in their site is just not right. This is actually a breech of the consumer protection laws. I have discovered three other Luzhong dealers. One in Adelaide. One in Brisbane and one in Taree. They don't call themselves Luzhong though, they have their own company names. Agricat Aus are also Luzhong under a different badge. (but we won't talk about them)

These tractors are out there and working fine. Depending on who you talk to. But of course some go wrong as do well known brands.

My problem is that I don't have the money to even get a look at the well known brands. I would love to be able to spend big but my income won't allow it. So far the tractor with all the luxury add-ons, 45hp EPA engine, cab, wider tires, shuttle shift, etc etc plus TZ05 loader 4 in 1, and 1400mm rotary hoe is costing $14500 to my door. That's why I'm considering importing my own. it's not easy and it's taken me ages to track down the right information. I still won't know of course until I run the tractor for a year. (if it runs for a year.) But hey, it's also the way one looks at life. I don't think of problems and problems but as lessons that always have something to teach. I've learned a lot so far. And no doubt if the machine cracks in half or if the gearbox drops out, I will learn a lot more.

I'm not going into this blindly. I do have doubts and so am researching these angles. But there will come a time soon when I will need to decide. I appreciate your comments. They make me rethink the whole exercise.
Eric.

 

[NewTractorOz]

Nothing. I'd personally get the non-EPA engine, and that's from the standpoint that it's simply easier to work on. Runs cooler too I think.

//greg//

From this point alone I think it's worth considering.

However Bob is saying :In many cases they are the same engine with updated components.
This is worth considering too.

About the horsepower rating: I figure I only need a 30-35hp machine. But I definitely need a cab and the small tractors don't come with cabins. So the extra weight will need a slightly larger engine. My logic is that a 45hp machine won't be worked as hard. I never push machines to the limit anyway. But does this make sense to anyone?

 

[zonta223]

Hi
PM on its way.

regards

 

[indianaEPH]

Nothing. I'd personally get the non-EPA engine, and that's from the standpoint that it's simply easier to work on. Runs cooler too I think.

//greg//

I think it depends on the specific difference. If it is the exact same engine/components and the only difference is the calibration of the fuel system then choose the engine based on : Better performance choose non-EPA, lower Smoke/PM choose EPA. HOwever, it may be that in order to be compliant with EPA regulations the EPA engines need to have better components, particularly the fuel system. Again the details are what matters.

The Diesel engine industry has been reducing emissions greatly over the last 20 years. In general this has been at the burden of added cost. Fuel economy although has always been very important is secondary to regulated emissions (if you don't meet emissions standards you don't sell).

With the adoption of Teir 4 standard in US/Euorope and 2010/Euro 6/7 emissions regulations the emphasis now shifts to fuel economy.

 

[greg_g]

But does this make sense to anyone?

Agreed. I had a 24hp 2wd Yanmar for years, and decided to replace it with a 25hp 42d Jinma. Big mistake. The construction materials used in the Chinese tractor were so much heavier/bulkier than the Japanese tractor, that the Jinma considerably outweighed the Yanmar. In some cases that's a good thing, but not on my hillside property. So despite the advantage of 4wd, the Jinma had considerably fewer horsepower per pound of tractor than the Yanmar. It just couldn't work and climb a hill at the same time. One or the other, not both. The Jinma dealer even replaced the tractor for me, but the 2nd one was no better. So after struggling with the under-powered (for my purposes) Jinmas for a couple years, I decided there was no alternative other than to trade up. I even skipped a tier, went straight to a 45hp 4wd KAMA. That's the machine I should have gotten in the first place. I liked the KM454 so well, that I bought it's little brother (TS354C) for light duty and loader work around the farm. But to tackle those hillsides, the 45hp was definitely the machine of preference. All four of those tractors were non-EPA

//greg//

 

[zonta223]

Hi Eric
can understand why you want to make a move shortly with Australian dollar going so High against the $US is a great time to pay for anything priced in $US

regards

 

[greg_g]

The Diesel engine industry has been reducing emissions greatly over the last 20 years. In general this has been at the burden of added cost. Fuel economy although has always been very important is secondary to regulated emissions (if you don't meet emissions standards you don't sell).

I've since traded the last two non-EPA tractors for a new 44hp 4wd John Deere (to the left). It has an EPA engine, and is lightweight like the old Yanmar. But after adding cab/loader/ballast, the horsepower per pound comes up well short of the 45hp KAMA it replaced (open station/no loader). The unintended consequence has put me back in the same situation; not enough power to effectively work up the hillsides.

So in my estimation the EPA/Euro road to lower emissions/particulates and greater fuel economy, has resulted in less power to the ground. In the old days, I think they use to call that draw bar horsepower.

//greg//

 

[doxford jim]

Hi Eric,
Thought I would add my two cents worth.

I too bought a Chinese tractor - a 2007 Jinma 554 (55hp). It was to replace a MF65 that I had but was a 1959 tractor and while it still worked well, parts were getting to be hard to come by and expensive.

I went with 55hp as I thought it would be enough - I don't think you can have too much hp unless you get ridiculous with it.

The choice for the Jinma was based on reports I could find and parts availability - I live in Canada and there can be problems. I recently tried to buy some parts out of the USA and was charged a certain price and was told one week delivery if I used UPS. Well, that turned out to be a real crock of sh*t and nearly seven weeks later, UPS phoned to tell me about a parcel of tractor part for delivery !!! After two weeks of no parts I re-ordered through a company in eastern Canada - who had to order the part direct from China, air freight it to Ontario and then send the complete order to me by Canada Post. This order was delivered within two weeks of first placing the order and at about 40% of what the US company would have cost me. I cancelled the first order and now the parts supplier and UPS have to sort out their expenses - ha , that should teach 'em !

The point of this story is to say that getting parts from China may not be bad at all. For me it was much faster than shipping from the USA and 40% of the cost.

The tractor with the FEL was perhaps 35% of what I would have paid for a new 55hp big name tractor (Ford, JD, MF etc). Sure I have had a few problems but nothing catastrophic that I couldn't handle. You can import yourself easier in Australia I think, than in Canada. I ordered through an importer (Chinese Canadian) and did quite well I feel. It came as a crated tractor and I assembled it myself - easy to do if you are mechanically inclined. But, as in anything you buy you do take some risk. I had reason to contact the Jinma factory and found them easy and pleasant to deal with.

How does this apply to Luzhong tractors - it doesn't really, but the lessons learned do.

If you feel happy about the Luzhong models, go for it. It might be worth looking at other major brands too like Foton, Dongfeng, ,Kama etc. Each make has good and not so good points and I think for the most part, the later tractors are better quality than the earlier ones.

By the way, I got $4500 in a quick sale for my old MF65 with a FEL and TPH (could have held out for $5,000). The new Jinma with the FEL and TPH cost me around $14,000 US in 2007. I would say that is a fair price - they most likely would be more expensive now.

HTH - good luck with whatever make you decide to go with.

Cheers

Jim

 

[NewTractorOz]

hey jim,
It's nice to hear the positive stories. I really appreciate your comments. My tractor should be coming fully assembled so it will be easier but I know there will be little things to tighten and check. The hardest thing for me was working out just what kind of options I wanted and finding the right supplier. I started out not knowing very much about tractors at all. I've tried my best to make sure I got the best loader. I hope I can add my experiences to yours as a positive one. Self importing is like taking the scary path through the bush rather than going along the highway. I've always preferred to take the unmarked trails. I've lived in some pretty isolated places and so don't mind waiting a while until something is fixed. China is only an email away really. And I've already decided to order a few spare parts along with the shipment. It's not so much the money I've saved, it's just that without doing what I'm doing a cab tractor just wouldn't be an option for me. I just wouldn't be able to do it.

But we'll see what happens as it's only early days yet.

I have decided to keep the EPA engine out for now. Runs hotter with a higher fuel pressure? To me it sounds like it's asking for trouble. Maybe my next tractor.

Eric

 

[SPIKER]

One thing is you should get a list of parts together and get them with the tractor is possible...

mark