Starting a Cold Deisel ??

[Gordon Gould]

I have a small Dresser Dozer with a 4 cylinder IH or Cummins D240N motor (not sure when they changed over). It has no glow plugs and I have not had it long enough to know its cold weather quirks. It is the first deisel I have had w/o glow plugs.

In the summer it starts in 2 or 3 seconds. This morning was about 20*F and it had been setting over a week. It was the first time I tried starting it below 40*F. It turned good but I had to try 5 or 6 times before it started. I was reluctant to let it crank for more than 5 seconds or so each time. After the first try it sounded like a flooded gas engine that turned easy and wanted to start but just wouldn't catch. Finally it did.
I had the throttle almost full.

I would like to know if this is normal and/or is there something I could have done differently to make it start easier. I am running the same fuel/stanadyne mix I run in my tractor. It is parked in the woods and it would be a hassle if I ran the batteries down ( It has two in parallel ) trying to start it.

Thanks in advance for any advise

gg

 

[Jerry/MT]

I have a small Dresser Dozer with a 4 cylinder IH or Cummins D240N motor (not sure when they changed over). It has no glow plugs and I have not had it long enough to know its cold weather quirks. It is the first deisel I have had w/o glow plugs.

In the summer it starts in 2 or 3 seconds. This morning was about 20*F and it had been setting over a week. It was the first time I tried starting it below 40*F. It turned good but I had to try 5 or 6 times before it started. I was reluctant to let it crank for more than 5 seconds or so each time. After the first try it sounded like a flooded gas engine that turned easy and wanted to start but just wouldn't catch. Finally it did.
I had the throttle almost full.

I would like to know if this is normal and/or is there something I could have done differently to make it start easier. I am running the same fuel/stanadyne mix I run in my tractor. It is parked in the woods and it would be a hassle if I ran the batteries down ( It has two in parallel ) trying to start it.

Thanks in advance for any advise

gg

Some engines are hard starters and others aren't. I'm presuming your engine is in reasonable mechanical condition, i.e good compression and properly adjusted valves. If the valves are leaking or the compression is low it will be a hard starter. The diesel is a great engine for tractors, both wheeled and tracked but cold weather operation is it's Achilles heel. They are hard to start without starting aids and the fuel is easily contaminated by condensation and if the temperatures are low enough and fuel untreated or not blended for cold operation, frozen filter or gelled fuel can prevent it from operating. I would use half throttle to start unless the owner's manual says different. Do you see white exhaust (unburned fuel) coming from the exhaust stack when you attempt a cold start? If you don't there may be a problem with initial fuel delivery.

In general, indirect injection diesels need glow plugs for a starting aid and direct injection engines use manifold heat or block heaters to help cold weather starting. There are exceptions.

Does it have any other cold starting aids? Is there are intake manifold heater (Thermostart, or an electric heater like a glow plug)?

A block heater is the best way to help with cold weather starting but if the nachine is parked off in the woods, unless there is a current bush handy(grin), that doesn' t help. Battery warmers can help get full output from the battery but again they take an electrical supply.There 's always starting fluid but that's hard on rings if not used correctly.

Some things that may help is to go to a lighter weight lube oil durring winter and bringing the batteries in at night, fully charging them and keeping them warm so they can provide maximum current to the starter. The lighter weight oil will require less starter torque to turn the engine over and since battery output is reduced by lower temperatures, a warm battery will provide more starter current.
It goes without saying that your fuel system must deliver fuel to the injectors so having clean fuel uncontaminated by water and blended for the temperature conditions that you operate in is also a must. I recommend that fuel filters be changed before the cold weather hits, the fuel tank always be kept full to reduce water condensation and the fuel be a winter blend or treated with both water susupension and gell prevention additives it it's a summer blend fuel in a partially full tank.

I hope you find this info helpful.

 

[dodge man]

Does it have a heating grid instead of glow plugs? The Cummins in my pick up doesn'thave glow plugs but what they call a heating grid instead. I have a hard believing it doesn't have some kind of preheat system.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Thank you very much for taking time for the detailed info. I am just learning about this machine and it helps a lot. I stuck my answers to your questions in down below, Hope it works.

gg

Some engines are hard starters and others aren't.

I guess I am trying to get a read from you guys whether you would call what I described as a hard starter. Should I have let it crank longer than 5 seconds at a time when it sounded like it wanted to go ?

I'm presuming your engine is in reasonable mechanical condition, i.e good compression and properly adjusted valves.

To be honest I don't really know. But the rest of the machine is in good condition and it sounds good and has run well for the little I have used it

If the valves are leaking or the compression is low it will be a hard starter. The diesel is a great engine for tractors, both wheeled and tracked but cold weather operation is it's Achilles heel. They are hard to start without starting aids and the fuel is easily contaminated by condensation and if the temperatures are low enough and fuel untreated or not lended for cold operation, frozen filter or gelled fuel can prevent it from operating. I would use half throttle to start unless the owner's manual says different.

The manual says use full throttle below 50*F, But I have never gone more than half until this morning, I tryed full because it was much colder.

Do you see white exhaust (unburned fuel) coming from the exhaust stack when you attempt a cold start? If you don't there may be a problem with initial fuel delivery.

I didn't know enough to look up at the stack. Next time I will definately do that

In general, indirect injection diesels need glow plugs for a starting aid and direct injection engines use manifold heat or block heaters to help cold weather starting. There are exceptions.

I have no idea what injection method is used

Does it have any other cold starting aids? Is there are intake manifold heater (Thermostart, or an electric heater like a glow plug)?

No heaters of any kind, It does have a solenoid operated ether injector. The manual says use below 32*F only. I do not have a canister for it. The weather has just started to be consistantly colder. I wanted to try w/o ether. I will see about a canister now for sure.

A block heater is the best way to help with cold weather starting but if the nachine is parked off in the woods, unless there is a current bush handy(grin), We have those but they are the low voltage variety that doesn' t help. Battery warmers can help get full output from the battery but again they take an electrical supply.There 's always starting fluid but that's hard on rings if not used correctly.

Some things that may help is to go to a lighter weight lube oil durring winter and bringing the batteries in at night, fully charging them and keeping them warm so they can provide maximum current to the starter. The lighter weight oil will require less starter torque to turn the engine over and since battery output is reduced by lower temperatures, a warm battery will provide more starter current.

I am running 10W30 engine oil

It goes without saying that your fuel system must deliver fuel to the injectors so having clean fuel uncontaminated by water and blended for the temperature conditions that you operate in is also a must. I recommend that fuel filters be changed before the cold weather hits, the fuel tank always be kept full to reduce water condensation and the fuel be a winter blend or treated with both water susupension and gell prevention additives it it's a summer blend fuel in a partially full tank.

I flushed the fuel tank (it was clean) and replaced all the filters before I started operating it in August. I also use Stanadyne with the fuel. Tank is not full though. I should do that

I hope you find this info helpful.

Very

 

[nspec]

I never start ANY engine at anything above idle speed. Opening the throttle all the way is dumping more and more fuel into the engine. It's not starting because its not warm enough to ignite the fuel/air mix. More fuel isn't the answer. Ideally, you should crank it for ten seconds or so with the fuel OFF, then open the fuel and crank normally. This builds the heat of compression without the excess fuel. We do this with the old detroits all the time and it helps a lot. Also, when that engine does fire off, wide open throttle is putting so much unnecessary wear on a cold - unlubricated engine. Idle speed starts will most definitely prolong the life of your engine.

 

[DAY]

My "Yella Fella" has no glow plugs, heaters, or anything, but it starts right up with a 2 second shot of ether into the air cleaner when the temperature is cold. If you can't get a canister, you can buy a can at TSC for a couple of bucks.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I never start ANY engine at anything above idle speed. Opening the throttle all the way is dumping more and more fuel into the engine. It's not starting because its not warm enough to ignite the fuel/air mix. More fuel isn't the answer. Ideally, you should crank it for ten seconds or so with the fuel OFF, then open the fuel and crank normally. This builds the heat of compression without the excess fuel. We do this with the old detroits all the time and it helps a lot. Also, when that engine does fire off, wide open throttle is putting so much unnecessary wear on a cold - unlubricated engine. Idle speed starts will most definitely prolong the life of your engine.

What you say makes sense. I will try it. I was just doing what the book said :confused3:

 

[big bubba]

probably already know, but beware of using ether. newer diesels do not recommend, and you can blow the head/ or rod bearing using this method. kubota does not recommend, though i did cheat years back on my hard starting massey 35...
just use sparingly!

 

[Gary Fowler]

Some of the older engines were designed with ether injection systems. Get your canister installed and use that with the recommended 2 second spray. If you get to much ether in the engine it is going to lock up on you but you will be able to start turning again in a few seconds. I had a 9000 Ford tractor that had the canister with push button delivery and when it needed a boost on cold mornings, I started cranking then pushed the button for a couple of seconds and it fired up everytime.
My old Yanmar has nothing for cold starting and when I needed to start it, I would pull the cover off the air filter and run wife's electric hair dryer on hot into the air intake to preheat the air. It started great with that, but you do need to be close to electricity. I suppose a propane torch would work also, just dont set fire to your air filter.

 

[nspec]

I can remember my uncle building a fire under the old d-8!! Gotta watch for oil leaks, and keep it small. Go eat breakfast, come back and try again!