Heart Healthy Eating

   / Heart Healthy Eating
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#21  
Your brain needs cholesterol to function. You should look into arginine. Opens the blood vessels.


Yes, you do need cholesterol for cell function and hormone production but if you have existing heart disease your total cholesterol should stay below 150 and LDL cholesterol should be below 70 which is more than enough for normal body function. Your body, the liver, makes all the cholesterol it needs there is no need to eat additional cholesterol. Interestingly, the statins you take only lowers the cholesterol your liver makes not the cholesterol you eat.

Arginine is an amino acid that you pretty much get in every food you eat and is important in the formation of nitric oxide. Nitric oxide keeps the linings of the arteries, the endothelium, healthy so cholesterol does not stick to it. Dr. Esselstyn does not recommend buying the supplement from health food stores because you get all you need when you eat healthy.
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating
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#22  
We really like eating
quinoa, ....

Forgeblast, here is our favorite quinoa salad recipe.

1/2 cup corn (cooked)
1 cup cooked quinoa (1/3 cup quinoa to 2/3 cup water boil then simmer 20 min)
1/2 cup cooked rice
1/2 cup canned black beans, rinsed and drained
1/2 cup finely chopped red bell pepper
1/2 cup finely chopped green bell pepper
1/2 cup finely chopped cucumber
2 Tbsp thinly sliced green onion
2 Tbsp lime juice
1 1/2 tsp chopped jalapeño pepper
1 1/2 tsp chopped fresh cilantro
salt
pepper
Mix well!
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating #23  
Txdon, just a quick (I hope) opinion. Don't get too hung up on studies. For every study, there's another one out there (or will be) that contradicts it, and if you look hard enough you can find it. If they didn't destroy it, you can probably find the study that said DDT was safe. Yes, there is a lot of contradictory information out there when it comes to nutrition, that's why it is important to keep researching and to learn something new every day. A wise man once told me something that personally hit home, "Stupidity is thinking your wise. Wisdom is knowing your stupid". When I threw out everything I thought I knew, doors that had always been closed to me threw themselves wide open. Now, when I think I know something, I rigorously try to prove myself wrong. Yes, it takes a lot of time, but it's my life and it's worth it to me. So if you're up to challenging yourself, go to Principles of Healthy Diets - Weston A Price Foundation and try to read it with an open mind. For me, it came down to common sense. If you want to learn how to eat healthy, study what healthy populations eat in their natural environment, not a bunch of rats in a laboratory.
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating
  • Thread Starter
#24  
Schemp, too bad Weston died in 1948 and did not have access to the knowledge and indisputable facts concerning heart disease in the last 60+ years. His main purpose was looking at the diets around the world concerning dental health.

I have been researching diet and heart disease extensively since my heart attack. It has nothing to do with an open mind, it has to do with facts.

When talking to cardiologists at:
THE WEATHERHEAD CENTER
FOR PREVENTING AND REVERSING ATHEROSCLEROSIS
AT
THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS MEDICAL SCHOOL AT HOUSTON
AND
MEMORIAL HERMAN HOSPITAL
they say it has been well known for the last 25 years that diet causes heart disease. Over 80% of people with known heart disease (heart attack or heart procedure) will not change their diet significantly. When there is no change in diet there is no change in the progression of heart disease.

At the Weatherhead center, They use the PET scan on the heart that shows the diet working. The scan is on people with heart disease, not rats. Right now they are doing a 5 year study not on the known fact that diet can reverse heart disease but on the incentive to get people to change their diet/lifestyle

The 5 year study called the "Century Study" lets people look at the regression of their heart disease through the PET scan. Half of the people in the study see their results yearly the other half do not.

If anyone doubts that diet can control heart disease please go to Houston and talk to the doctors at the Weatherhead center. It could save your life.


Their program is not as strict as Dr. Esselstyn's program but for me I believe I must try my very best and Esselstyn's program includes everything in the Century Study and more.


Quote from Schemp: "For me, it came down to common sense. If you want to learn how to eat healthy, study what healthy populations eat in their natural environment, not a bunch of rats in a laboratory." If this is true and you base you diet on this then I'm sure you will want to read "The China Study".
 
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   / Heart Healthy Eating #25  
tx,

After my stent I changed my diet completely and went through a heart rehab program. I lost 45 lbs initially. My weight is still down but fluctuates. I was a vegetarian 30+ years ago for about 5 years - I was very athletic then. Your food choice sounds more like a vegan path. Be careful of your B12 count. Mine dropped to half do to the fact I gave up red meat. So I am taking a vitamin to counter the low count. I still eat salmon, chicken and our own free ranged pork and everything in moderation - which is the key. I only use VG extra virgin olive oil cold pressed to cook with and in my own salad dressings. Also, I completely eliminated salt/sodium from my diet even though I used sea salt to cook with for years. I find my weight fluctuates based on the carbs I eat. I can not process flour based foods(bread, pasta) and potatoes etc. I gave this up when I first changed my food choice and lost a lot of weight quickly. I eat a bit now and then but really feel the effects after.

There are a couple of diets/thoughts circulating which I heard about and I am not sure of source but sound interesting. One is you shouldn't consume anything that has a heart - guide line. I guess the consumption of "heart" foods oppose the nature of the human make-up and food need. The other thought is that we are dna programmed for our diet 1000's of years ago. So, based on your ancestral origin your diet should be in line with the food they ate - ie:asian or coastal areas: fish, in-land would be meat, agrarian would be grains only etc. So eating things unrelated to our origin throws us out of balance. You can see what our present western diet has done to our northern inuit peoples and aboriginals over the last 100+ years.

I also read that not all heart conditions can be reversed but most can... through diet and exercise.

Take care and be careful... the body needs time to change and adapt. You can do a lot of damage to your organs quickly with a very quick weight lose and diet change.
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating
  • Thread Starter
#27  
tx,

After my stent I changed my diet completely and went through a heart rehab program. I lost 45 lbs initially. My weight is still down but fluctuates. I was a vegetarian 30+ years ago for about 5 years - I was very athletic then. Your food choice sounds more like a vegan path. Be careful of your B12 count. Mine dropped to half do to the fact I gave up red meat. So I am taking a vitamin to counter the low count. I still eat salmon, chicken and our own free ranged pork and everything in moderation - which is the key. I only use VG extra virgin olive oil cold pressed to cook with and in my own salad dressings. Also, I completely eliminated salt/sodium from my diet even though I used sea salt to cook with for years. I find my weight fluctuates based on the carbs I eat. I can not process flour based foods(bread, pasta) and potatoes etc. I gave this up when I first changed my food choice and lost a lot of weight quickly. I eat a bit now and then but really feel the effects after.

There are a couple of diets/thoughts circulating which I heard about and I am not sure of source but sound interesting. One is you shouldn't consume anything that has a heart - guide line. I guess the consumption of "heart" foods oppose the nature of the human make-up and food need. The other thought is that we are dna programmed for our diet 1000's of years ago. So, based on your ancestral origin your diet should be in line with the food they ate - ie:asian or coastal areas: fish, in-land would be meat, agrarian would be grains only etc. So eating things unrelated to our origin throws us out of balance. You can see what our present western diet has done to our northern inuit peoples and aboriginals over the last 100+ years.

I also read that not all heart conditions can be reversed but most can... through diet and exercise.

Take care and be careful... the body needs time to change and adapt. You can do a lot of damage to your organs quickly with a very quick weight lose and diet change.

Loyd E thanks for your post, I'm glad you found the diet that works for you. I'm glad you posted, every person is different and the origin of the ancestors theory is interesting. I have traced 16 of my great great grand parents back to crop farmers in southeastern Germany which could be why even the low meat diet of the American Heart Association did not work for me. If you have ancestors from different areas of the world it could take a lifetime to figure out the genes which are affecting your health and which foods to avoid. You are right about the diet not reversing every heart condition. The diet affects only the ones that have arterial blockage due to plaque build up from cholesterol. And then there are some people that cannot eat legumes/vegetables/grains/greens.

If you have genes from one ancestor that make carbohydrates intolerable and genes from another ancestor that causes the cholesterol from animal products to cause plaque build-up, oh man..... at least the statins will decrease the cholesterol your body does make. The only change I would make after reading all about the oils is to cut them out. I wonder if our ancestors just used oil for lamps or if they ate it?

I'm taking B-12 and after my stent I lost 15 pounds and am in the normal BMI now. I was almost on a vegetarian diet shortly before so cutting out the oils and dairy (especially in processed foods) was my biggest dietary change.

It sounds like you would be an excellent patient for the Century Study in Houston. I know the questions all of us with heart disease have is are we doing everything we can to combat our disease and is our lifestyle change stopping the plaque build-up. Take care.
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Edamame Appetizer Recipe >. I forgot all about this..maybe ya'll already know about how good this is ..but I buy these Edamame at Sam's club in the Frozen Veggie section...about $5.00 for a 5 lb. bag...These are great...delicious in fact and you can even use the microwave but the link below gives a recipe..they are soy beans in the pod and you eat them as a snack ....don't laugh..these are really good and addictive...Try it and let me know how you like it...Thank me later...:licking:

Edamame Appetizer Recipe - RecipeTips.com

Brin, I was in Sam's today and remembered your post. I bought the 5 pound bag with the little microwavable bags inside and cooked one. The directions said not to open the bag so I did not salt them while cooking and after they were done I was thinking why salt the shells if you don't eat the shells? So I had them without salt and they are OK, and whole lot healthier than peanuts which I can't eat. A good late night snack! I just had half a packet in 10 minutes. Thanks for the tip.
 
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   / Heart Healthy Eating #29  
Thanks for your thoughtful reply Txdon. Most people get ruffled feathers when someone offers a counter-view. Glad to see your not one of them.

too bad Weston died in 1948 and did not have access to the knowledge and indisputable facts concerning heart disease in the last 60+ years.
Yes it is a shame he passed. But the only indisputable fact I have been able to find about heart disease is the fact that for the hundreds of years they have been plotting it (and all the other diseases of civilization), it remained pretty steady and pretty low until the beginning of the industrial revolution, at which time the slope of the line increased somewhat, and then around the late 1950's it makes another big increase, with another big kink upward that looks like the end of a hockey stick around the 1980's. Does this correlate to the beginning of pasteurization around the 1900's, the death of the small family farm and the beginning of huge, industrial mega farm post WWII, and finally the beginning of the FDA's food pyramid scheme to get American's to eat up all the oil soaked grain being produced on these mega farms? Or did our genes suddenly change, or perchance we all decided to start eating like pigs at the same time? I don't know what kind of diet you had before your heart problems, but if you're like the rest of us, it was probably a SAD one (Standard American Diet). We eat the deadest food on the planet, and we have the stats to show it. After you grow food genetically modified to survive on dead soil, pasteurize, homogenize, irradiate, then microwave it, how can you expect there to be anything but empty calories left?
When talking to cardiologists at:
THE WEATHERHEAD CENTER FOR PREVENTING AND REVERSING ATHEROSCLEROSIS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS MEDICAL SCHOOL AT HOUSTON AND MEMORIAL HERMAN HOSPITAL
they say it has been well known for the last 25 years that diet causes heart disease. Over 80% of people with known heart disease (heart attack or heart procedure) will not change their diet significantly. When there is no change in diet there is no change in the progression of heart disease.
I hope they didn't charge for that info, because I could have told you that for free. In fact, I'll guarantee you that everyone who religiously sticks to a SAD diet and survives long enough will eventually suffer the ill effects of it. Hippocrates got it right when he said all diseases start in the gut. We are what we eat. We are walking around with huge bellies, literally starving to death. The body is a miraculous thing and has the ability to heal itself, but only if we give it the raw materials to work with, and get the heck out of its way. When we get a cold, the body makes us cough, because it is trying to get the bad out. What do we do? We take cough suppression medicine. The body then can't get out the bad stuff by coughing, so it tries to do it another way. It gives us the runs. What do we do, we take stuff to stop the runs. Eventually the body runs out of ways to fight the sickness. If we had just left it alone and put up with a little cough, we would have been done with it in a few days and would have built up a resistance to what it was fighting in the first place.
At the Weatherhead center, They use the PET scan on the heart that shows the diet working. The scan is on people with heart disease, not rats.
No difference, their just using people as rats. They're still not studying the whole system in its natural enviornment. They are studying just a little part of it. Sure, they can probably come up with a way to make that picture of a heart look like the way they say it should look, but at what expense to the other systems. I laugh every time I see a commercial for a new drug and they have to list the side effects at the end. "Yes, you can have clear skin as long as you don't mind possibly going blind, having a stroke, or dying." At least everyone will comment how good your skin looks as they pass by your coffin. Lloyde E makes some very good points in his post. His foray into veganism reflects what many others have said. Good at first, bad over the long term.
There are a couple of diets/thoughts circulating which I heard about and I am not sure of source but sound interesting. One is you shouldn't consume anything that has a heart - guide line. I guess the consumption of "heart" foods oppose the nature of the human make-up and food need. The other thought is that we are dna programmed for our diet 1000's of years ago. So, based on your ancestral origin your diet should be in line with the food they ate - ie:asian or coastal areas: fish, in-land would be meat, agrarian would be grains only etc. So eating things unrelated to our origin throws us out of balance. You can see what our present western diet has done to our northern inuit peoples and aboriginals over the last 100+ years.
The above quote should say originally posted by Lloyde E. I haven't learned how to make that happen yet.
We actually stood up about 2.5 million years ago and called ourselves man, with the exact same brain capacity the we have now. For 2.49 out of those 2.5 million years, we had the same basic diet; forager/hunter. Our bodies evolved to that diet. It was only about 10,000 years ago that we started agriculture, a blink of the eye, about twelve seconds ago on a twelve hour clock. Humans don't have the natural ability to digest grain because we don't have a rumen. Apparently a lot of people started dying out when we first tried to eat grains, until they discovered that you had to ferment the grains first, then the grains turn into a form we can digest. The grains we eat today are not fermented. Guess what's going to happen?
The whole point I'm trying to make is that these studies don't study whole, natural, grass based food systems that haven't been industrialized yet. You're absolutely right, confinement animals pumped full of chemicals to keep them alive will kill you over time. But grass-fed, naturally raised happy animals will heal you over time. And I'm talking about all foods, not just animals.
Medicine is big business in this country, about 20% of the GDP. There are a lot of people out there who stand to lose a whole lot of money if people figure out how to stop being sick on their own. Small natural based farms selling unpasteurized, unhomoginized milk to people who want these things are under attack these days, literally at gunpoint by the FDA. What threat do these farms pose? I can go out and buy a pack of cigarettes and a six pack of beer, but I can't go out and buy unpasteurized milk for fear of arrest. What's wrong with that picture!
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating #30  
Brin, I was in Sam's today and remembered your post. I bought the 5 pound bag with the little microwavable bags inside and cooked one. The directions said not to open the bag so I did not salt them while cooking and after they were done I was thinking why salt the shells if you don't eat the shells? So I had them without salt and they are OK, and whole lot healthier than peanuts which I can't eat. A good late night snack! I just had half a packet in 10 minutes. Thanks for the tip.

Don, I am glad you liked them...I can't eat peanuts either, I like them but they don't like me and like you I snack on these instead, much healthier..
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating #31  
Don thanks for this thread. I just got my report back from the Dr. my cholesterol levels are way high as well my BP is high... soooo I'm on cholesterol med's, BP meds, 1 aspirin daily and instructed to loose the belly fat ... the diet is going to be hard.
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating #32  
" the diet is going to be hard "

Blue, It will only be hard if you look at it as a diet and not a life style change..Diets are what people go on for awhile and then go back to eating according to their old habits and gain all the weight and more back...Lifestyle change means you come to realize a new way of eating and begin to enjoy it and the food as you are rewarded with results...It is hard the first 4 to 7 days...after that it becomes much easier and you will have seen and felt some results by then and that will encourage you...

This is as much mental as physical...stay positive...you will be happy with the results.
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating #34  
I like this diet. Mas cervesa, poquito comidia. More beer, less food.

Seriously, don is on the right track here and I wish him all the luck in the world in reversing his heart disease. He's also doing everyone a great service by writing about it here so we can all benefit.

Thank you, TxDon!
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating
  • Thread Starter
#35  
Thanks for your thoughtful reply Txdon. Most people get ruffled feathers when someone offers a counter-view. Glad to see your not one of them.

Shemp we agree on most things. With your post I see the beginning of another spin-off thread, titled something like the "sad state of SAD". If you start it, start with your last post and count me in the discussion!:thumbsup:

If you don't mind, I would like to keep the focus of this thread on current heart diet(s)/lifestyle and foods that members are doing to improve their heart health. When I was in Cardiac rehab I needed some help quick and TBN is one place I can trust. I remembered reading about several members having heart problem before but none went into detail of the changes in their lifestyle. That is why I started this thread to put on-line the answer to: Now what? - after a cardiac event or procedure.

I am not a doctor or nutritionalist. I advise anyone that makes significant changes in diet or exercise to be consulting with their own Doctor.

I found something that is working for my specific problem and my body. I know it's working because of my ejection fraction, weight loss, total blood test, Cholesterol test, blood pressure, reduction and elimination of heart meds and the fact the hill to my house that I was out of breath walking up, I can now sprint up ten times. I know every one is different and tolerates food differently and encourage heart patient to post what is working for them. For those that have not had a heart attack or procedure and don't want one, I would like to also know what they are doing for prevention and how it is working for them. Thanks! Don
 
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   / Heart Healthy Eating
  • Thread Starter
#36  
Don thanks for this thread. I just got my report back from the Dr. my cholesterol levels are way high as well my BP is high... soooo I'm on cholesterol med's, BP meds, 1 aspirin daily and instructed to loose the belly fat ... the diet is going to be hard.

Blue river welcome to the heart thread. The diet/lifestyle change is a challenge but a very doable task. First you have you TBN friends here to help with any question you have and secondly we will be posting tasty heart healthy recipes that pass the TBN taste test.

There are several good books out there by Ornish, Furman, McDougal, Gould and Esseltyn. After my heart attack I decided to quite playing softball with my diet, (it was a good diet but one of moderations) and do the very best that I could. That is why I choose Esselstyn. After going to one of his family seminars and hearing the long term effects of his patients I knew my decision was correct. His book is "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease" is a wealth of good information about heart disease.

There is a Documentary film, Forks Over Knives, a spinoff from his book that I recommend highly:
(and should be on your Christmas list)
Forks Over Knives | The Official Movie Website

Believe me the back of the ambulance in not a comfortable place and you are at a very vulnerable time in your life. Most heart attacks are from newer plaque that is only blocking 30-40% of the artery and you have no signs or symptoms before it ruptures and forms a clot blocking the blood flow to part of the heart - heart attack.

Again welcome and keep us posted, we are here as your support group!
 
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   / Heart Healthy Eating
  • Thread Starter
#37  
Here's a interesting recipe website:

ChefMD Healthy Recipes - Dr. John LaPuma

Don

Don, he adds a bit of a different twist/taste to his vegan recipes. The little bit of oil used can easily be eliminated to fit in the very heart healthy category. Thanks for the link, post if you try one before I do.

Here is a site my wife likes because there is usually no modifications necessary:
Fatfree Vegan Recipes

Just don't do the nut based and avocados recipes.
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating
  • Thread Starter
#38  
I like this diet. Mas cervesa, poquito comidia. More beer, less food.

Seriously, don is on the right track here and I wish him all the luck in the world in reversing his heart disease. He's also doing everyone a great service by writing about it here so we can all benefit.

Thank you, TxDon!

Beer is on the diet! However I have had problems with it since my heart attack. I can't figure it out. I know it's just air (and I can't seem to burp) but the pain is right where it was during the heart attack, kind of scary, can't seem to be able to finish a can.:confused:
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating #39  
Beer is on the diet! However I have had problems with it since my heart attack. I can't figure it out. I know it's just air (and I can't seem to burp) but the pain is right where it was during the heart attack, kind of scary, can't seem to be able to finish a can.:confused:

Switch to bottles! :D

I have luckily never had a real concern about heart problems but you never know. I am really looking forward to watching this thread develop.
 
   / Heart Healthy Eating #40  
Shemp we agree on most things. With your post I see the beginning of another spin-off thread, titled something like the "sad state of SAD". If you start it, start with your last post and count me in the discussion!:thumbsup:

If you don't mind, I would like to keep the focus of this thread on current heart diet(s)/lifestyle and foods that members are doing to improve their heart health. When I was in Cardiac rehab I needed some help quick and TBN is one place I can trust. I remembered reading about several members having heart problem before but none went into detail of the changes in their lifestyle. That is why I started this thread to put on-line the answer to: Now what? - after a cardiac event or procedure.

I am not a doctor or nutritionalist. I advise anyone that makes significant changes in diet or exercise to be consulting with their own Doctor.

I found something that is working for my specific problem and my body. I know it's working because of my ejection fraction, weight loss, total blood test, Cholesterol test, blood pressure, reduction and elimination of heart meds and the fact the hill to my house that I was out of breath walking up, I can now sprint up ten times. I know every one is different and tolerates food differently and encourage heart patient to post what is working for them. For those that have not had a heart attack or procedure and don't want one, I would like to also know what they are doing for prevention and how it is working for them. Thanks! Don

Shemp we agree on most things. With your post I see the beginning of another spin-off thread, titled something like the "sad state of SAD". If you start it, start with your last post and count me in the discussion!
Thanks Txdon, but the only threads I'll be starting will be ones on how to fix my 'new' 30 year old tractor I just bought. I figured when I saw organic gardening in your interests that you probably already know about the SAD state of affairs when it comes to our food supply, but others may not.
If you don't mind, I would like to keep the focus of this thread on current heart diet(s)/lifestyle and foods that members are doing to improve their heart health......For those that have not had a heart attack or procedure and don't want one, I would like to also know what they are doing for prevention and how it is working for them.
I apologize for my ineptness, but I kinda thought that's what I was trying to do. When others suggested that you might want to rethink your views on fat, you seemed pretty adamant about a heart healthy diet needing to be low-fat. There are others, including doctors and nutritionists, who feel this is not the case, and they too have their studies to back them up. It's all there on the Weston Price website (recipes too). It's not just about some dentist, it's a "whole big picture" kinda thing. I urge you to keep reading it. Don't forget to get those second opinions.
I am one of those you invited to comment who hasn't had a heart attack yet, who is furiously trying to reverse a lifetime's worth of damage I know I have done to my body. It was about a year ago when I was able to procure a supply of raw goat milk and pasture based meat that I started the slow change-over, and by spring when the fresh green growth of grass kicked in, I was running on all cylinders. I was able to make my own cheeses and eat my own home made fermented veggies, all chemical free, and more importantly grain free and soy free (except for the chickens, because they are designed by nature to eat grains, but not soy) Grains (and especially soy) really mess up animals which are designed to eat grass.
The results for me were incredible. First thing to go was the heartburn, which is the first sign your gut gives you when your not eating right. Next thing to go was the stinky, tough bowel movements and hemorrhoids. Next to go was the body odor (now I know why the old-timers only had to take a bath once a week, the poisons coming out of our bodies is what stinks). And now? Well "they" say you can't rebuild cartilage, but yesterday I was two steppin it up a thirty foot ladder with a load in both hands, pain free, when I year ago I could barely drag one foot up at a time because of the pain in my knees. I've done construction my who life, mostly ironwork, rodbuster specifically. With you being a welder, maybe you've been on a jobsite and seen what we do. You know you're in trouble when you get paid by how many tons of steel you can physically lift and place in a day. I figured back and joint pain was simply going to be a fact of the rest of my life, with the possibility of not being able to walk somewhere on the horizon. I don't know (or care) what's going on in those joints, but they haven't been this smooth and quiet in decades. Also the decay in my teeth (what few are left) has stopped progressing. It's incredible what a body can do when it gets enough calcium in the form it can utilize.
Now, when I eat SAD food, my body tells me, because I wake up with a hangover, literally. Feels no different than when I used to go out and drink a few too many. Problem is I can't bite the hair of the dog to make myself feel better. I take no drugs, not even an aspirin.
What's this got to do with heart healthy eating. Everything. I know the whole system is improving, not just one little part, and I don't need scans to prove it. My body and heart are jumping with joy because it is finally getting the nutrition it needs, and what's not to like about eggs over easy fried in lots of butter! If you and your body aren't jumping for joy, you might want to keep looking.

WARNING: This will only work with grass based natural food systems grown by farmers with a genuine love for their brothers, animals and land, not profit. You will have to personally get to know who is raising your food, and the best way to do that is to grow your own (I'm just starting to get my fences up for my goat herd). This will not work with the cheap industrial food supply we are presently offered, and it will kill you rather quickly. You'd be better off being a vegan. You get what you pay for. This country derailed when we forced the small farmer off the land, and won't get back on track until we put him back there.
I'll close with a quick note and then get out of your hair for good. It doesn't matter what you eat if you lay there in bed at night worrying, cause you're gonna die young. Stress will kill you quicker than anything else. If you have that problem, solve it first. Best of wishes to you Txdon! I've got some post holes to dig.
 

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