Pole barn foundation

[Drrob]

In order to attempt to make a long story short, I will tell you that I started a building as an ag building ( need no building permit) and the county did not like that so well and now I am in process of applying for a permit. The building is already erected, just not all the way sealed up. It Is a 60 x 112 pole building and I live in ohio. The post are all on poured concrete that is 18 inches diameter by 12 inches thick 36 inches deep. Post are laminate 6x6. Building department now wants my plans stamped by architect because they feel footers are undersized. Lots of questions.
1. Are they undersized?

2. If so what kind of problems would I expect and is there a fix since building is already up with spray foam Insulation on walls?

3. Does having my plans stamped sound like reasonable thing or is the building department just jerking me around because I started a building without thier permission?

4. Thinking about appealing for agricultural exemption, has anyone ever done that and was it easy? I have about 50 acres and have been having a farmer make hay on it for a few years, but want to start doing that myself and start an orchard on part of the land. I do not actively farm at present ( full time doctor) but would like do do some part time now And more later in life. Having read the ohio revised code I really think my building should qualify, but township zoning guy did not feel that it did. Just his opinion he said I was welcome to appeal. Did not initially because I thought getting a permit would be faster and easier than fighting at that point, but appears I was wrong.

 

[BeezFun]

4. Thinking about appealing for agricultural exemption, has anyone ever done that and was it easy? I have about 50 acres and have been having a farmer make hay on it for a few years, but want to start doing that myself and start an orchard on part of the land. I do not actively farm at present ( full time doctor) but would like do do some part time now And more later in life. Having read the ohio revised code I really think my building should qualify, but township zoning guy did not feel that it did. Just his opinion he said I was welcome to appeal. Did not initially because I thought getting a permit would be faster and easier than fighting at that point, but appears I was wrong.

I live in Illinois, several of us went through this with the county about 3 years ago so I know a lot about it here, don't know anything about OH. First of all there's an IL statute that defines whether or not you qualify to be exempt from building permits and requirements, it's pretty clear cut based on size and use of land. If you qualify, the state law trumps county law and you don't need a permit. Now the county didn't agree with that, sent out the inspector, made a big stink. So neighbor hired a lawyer who went down there and told them he was going to sue the county, talked to the county board members, by the time he was done the county agreed we could build any ag building we wanted without talking to them. Only condition in IL law is setbacks, we have to honor county setbacks. My experience was that the county people all acted like bigshots until the lawyer showed up and proved they didn't know what they were talking about. So I'd do a little research and see if you can find out whether there's an OH statute that defines agricultural use and buildings, see if it's clear enough that you can understand it. If not get a lawyer who understands ag law and ask him to contact your elected official to inform them the inspectors are preventing you from legal use of your property, etc.

To answer your technical question, I think pole barns are generally built on undersized footings, so I'm not surprised they are questioning it. You can do a sanity calculation pretty easy: building is 60x112=6720 square feet. Not sure what part of OH you're in, but let's say you have 30psf snow load, so that's 6720*30=201,600 pounds. If you use it for hay storage, let's say that's 50psf so that's 6720*50=336,000#. The building probably weighs 10psf depending what it's made out of so that's 6720*10=67,200#. Add that all up and call it about 600,000#. Each of your footings is (18/2)**2 * pi = 254sqin = 1.75 sf. I'll take a wild guess that you have posts every 10' and a row down the middle for a total of 180 posts, so total footing area is 180*1.75 = 315 sf. If you divide the total possible load by that number you get the loading on the soil: 600,000/315 = 1900psf. Lousy soil will support 2000psf, pure gravel soil will support about 5000psf. You're probably somewhere in between. So that means you have adequate footing support, but not much safety factor. If you have fewer posts, more of a problem. Of course you might have a much lower load depending on snow load, what you're storing etc which means you might have plenty of support. I'd try to hire a lawyer and make them go away before you talk to an engineer.

 

[Ken45101]

Well it probably depends on HOW you are going to use the building when it is done. If you are going to store farm equipment in it, horses, hay, etc., then I would think it would be exempt. OTOH, if you are finishing it up inside for non ag use, then I would agree with the county.

6x6 "laminate posts"? Are these pressure treated?

Ken

 

[Army grunt]

>>>>>>>>Drrob<<<<<<<<<
Read, an re read the book on building an use of the building. You'll be surprised about the loop holes in books written many years ago, anything open to interpretation is a point you can argue.I lived an did alot of building in Ct. when I was done they the town I dealt with rewrote the book of zoning regs.!
What towns do is adopt a book from other towns an put a zoning board of appeals in place , these people on the most part are people like yourself. All you need is one person to see it your way.Present your case to them. I did several times an won every time, because they new the book that was used was out dated.
Good luck.
EDUCATE YOURSELF!!
Army Grunt

 

[Duffster]

6x6 "laminate posts"? Are these pressure treated?

Features Three-Member Laminated Columns by Morton Buildings, Inc.

 

[Bigkrank]

Titan Timbers ? Glue Laminated Wood Columns - Post Frame Construction Products

 

[Drrob]

My post are 8 feet apart. I believe they are pressure treated. I do plan to store my tractor and other equipment in barn.

 

[BeezFun]

My post are 8 feet apart. I believe they are pressure treated. I do plan to store my tractor and other equipment in barn.

Putting equipment in the barn has no effect on the footing loading unless it's being supported by the barn structure. So driving a tractor into the barn, whether or not it's a concrete floor, puts no load on the style footing you have. If you have a hay loft, and you load it up with 1000 bales of hay, that all gets transmitted to the footing. Do you have a center row of posts, or only posts along each wall?

 

[yanmars]

My ground is agricultural in Ohio and I have put up two buildings and never needed a permit but they were for farm use.

 

[Drrob]

There are no center post. No load on anything except whatever snow load might occur. I realize the tractors create no load, just stating that is part of what I would store one the building.