YM1700 won't start

[Ginormous]

Hi guys,
Well, I can't get my tractor to start. Last time I started it was in October, and it was hard to start, probably because it was cold out, ~ 50 degrees. Since I don't have the Thermostart, I expected it to be hard to start. I discovered a leak in the bleed screw at the banjo fitting and replaced it. I bled the lines and fuel now drips from the ends of the lines where they connect to the cylinder (if I disconnect them) if I crank the starter. With the fuel lines attached, the engine turns over and over and over, but no ignition. I pushed it into my garage, put a small magnetic heater on the engine oil pan and had a space heater warming up the garage (it was 45 degrees outside) and still no ignition at all. What am I missing? Is it flooded?

 

[winston1]

I would think it should crank without thermostart with 45 degree weather, especially with the heating you have done. Does your 1700 have compression release and are you using it? Is your engine turning over fast as it should? If the answers to those questions are yes then I would go through the bleeding process again all the way through as shown here. Yanmar Tractor Fuel Bleeding Procedure

 

[Trkrd]

Mine is a bit stubborn in cold weather. What I normally do is hold the decompression lever open and crank it til the oil light goes off, then release the lever. If it doesn't start (most of the time) I repeat the process while watching the exhaust. Will smoke at first and when the smoke clears I release the lever and she normally fires right up.

 

[Scotty Dive]

I had this problem after I changed my filter. I bled the two screws on the filter with no luck. There is another bleeder screw on the injection pump and after bleeding that I had no problems.

Are you getting black smoke at all? I doubt 45 degrees is really cold enough to cause you a starting problem assuming you have 15W40 oil in there. how is that battery you are using - is it turning over that engine fast enough? Have you used the decompression knob? Is it stuck in the open position? Also - you may be temted to use starting fluid....don't...not good from everything I have read.

 

[Trkrd]

Ditto----NO ETHER!!!

 

[284 International]

I think the others are on the right track. Try bleeding everything as Winston suggested. This also lets you make sure the filter and lines are passing sufficient volumes of fuel. If the lines are off the injectors you should get distinct spurts of fuel, not just drips, which tends to suggest a fuel delivery problem. Nothing broke while sitting unused, so I suspect it has merely lost prime.

It never gets really cold here, but I have started my machines in 40 to 45 degree weather, and have never used the Thermostart, since none of mine work. The tractors start fine, though.

 

[Ginormous]

Also - you may be temted to use starting fluid....don't...not good from everything I have read.

YES! Sorely tempted, but I haven't given in. :thumbsup:

 

[Ginormous]

I would think it should crank without thermostart with 45 degree weather, especially with the heating you have done. Does your 1700 have compression release and are you using it? Is your engine turning over fast as it should? If the answers to those questions are yes then I would go through the bleeding process again all the way through as shown here. Yanmar Tractor Fuel Bleeding Procedure

I always use my compression release. I think it's turning over fast enough. I have been re-charging my battery between attempts because I have run it down trying to start.

 

[Ginormous]

I had this problem after I changed my filter. I bled the two screws on the filter with no luck. There is another bleeder screw on the injection pump and after bleeding that I had no problems.

Are you getting black smoke at all? I doubt 45 degrees is really cold enough to cause you a starting problem assuming you have 15W40 oil in there. how is that battery you are using - is it turning over that engine fast enough? Have you used the decompression knob? Is it stuck in the open position? Also - you may be temted to use starting fluid....don't...not good from everything I have read.

I typically hold the decompression knob open while I try to start. Is it important to let in close?? No black smoke, nothing obvious from the exhaust.

 

[Ginormous]

I think the others are on the right track. Try bleeding everything as Winston suggested. This also let's you make sure the filter and lines are passing sufficient volumes of fuel. If the lines are off the injectors you should get distinct spurts of fuel, not just drips, which tends to suggest a fuel delivery problem. Nothing broke while sitting unused, so I suspect it has merely lost prime.

It never gets really cold here, but I have started my machines in 40 to 45 degree weather, and have never used the Thermostart, since none of mine work. The tractors start fine, though.

I am definitely not getting spurts of fuel. When I followed the directions for bleeding the system yesterday, the fuel was just dripping out of the end of the lines that connect to the engine. Sounds like I should try bleeding again.

 

[284 International]

Make sure there is fuel in the tank, and the cap is venting, fuel filter isn't plugged, etc. The final blessed on the pump should flow a stream the size of the bleeder bolt if it is removed. In other words, it makes a real mess when you do it! :laughing:

If there isn't enough flow, or if bubbles are giving the pump an embolism, you won't get enough fuel for it to smoke.

 

[careyo63]

I would start from scratch. Drain all the fuel in the Tank. Clean the Fuel Filter Bowl and replace the Filter with new one. Make sure the O-Ring around the Filter Bowl is Good,Correct size Etc. I believe you can get one Local at a auto Parts store this just came up with a "Purolater" part#'s Fuel/Oil. Me Clemsonfor and Smoody just Discussed it. Replace the Fuel with some new Diesel so you can rule that out. Bleed the Lines with on the Inj.Pump and Filter. I would do it Multiple times to make sure you Bleed All the Air Out. There's a U-Tube Video to show you what and what not to do. I Grew up in Hamilton Co. and Own a Ym2000 basicly the same Tractor. IMO 50degs. you shouldn't need the TS.
If all fails Your need to remove and inspect the Injectors. If there clean your need to Run a Compression Check. Which If it was mine I would do just to Know the Comp. of the Cyl. and know what I have. Just my2cents

 

[Ginormous]

Thanks everybody. I'll go make a mess on the floor now. I'm hoping I still have some air in the lines, so I'll make double dog sure I don't by running a lot of fuel out, not just a few drops.

 

[Ginormous]

Well, I have fuel squirting out of the lines at the injectors now after bleeding the lines thoroughly. I was trying to crank it over and it was starting sound slightly more promising when I noticed my starter was smoking! Specifically, it was smoking right where the heavy battery cable connects to the starter. I guess I'll wait a while and give it another try later. I hope it's not fried...

 

[careyo63]

While your waiting for it to cool clean the connections on the starter and the battery. Esp. the ground cable that is grounded to the frame. That is one of the most Neglected and needs to have a good connection. Also Use your Decompression to get the motor spinning. It's gets the eng. spinning faster and it's alot easier on the starter. Worst case you may need to get it rebuilt. I had mine done at a local Starter & Alternator shop for 75.00$ and it Works Great.

 

[Ginormous]

While your waiting for it to cool clean the connections on the starter and the battery. Esp. the ground cable that is grounded to the frame. That is one of the most Neglected and needs to have a good connection. Also Use your Decompression to get the motor spinning. It's gets the eng. spinning faster and it's alot easier on the starter. Worst case you may need to get it rebuilt. I had mine done at a local Starter & Alternator shop for 75.00$ and it Works Great.

I was just reading in an older thread about starting issues and needing to clean the various connections. I'll do that.

 

[Ginormous]

Again reading old posts... Car Doc says: "The batt voltage should not go below about 10.5v cranking a good starter so this tells me its a bad connection somewhere and its most likely at the battery you are simply loosing current, IE voltage is easy to move amps is hard. Clean the batt terms first. btw

I bet the lights go clear out rather than dim when its turned to crank am I right?

One more thing to check is for heat at the various connections that is usually a dead giveaway of a bad connection try starting it a few times and carefully put a finger on all the connections."

Well, I tried his diagnostic, and my lights almost go out when I turn the key to "start". I also had a connection at the start get very hot; might be my culprit.

 

[careyo63]

I also had a connection at the start get very hot; might be my culprit.

For that to happen Poor or Bad Ground. With the Pos.+ getting Hot and the Starter starts "SMOKING" thats what happens. It could also be the Starter motor it self that Grounding Out. It won't last very much longer and hopefully it's not the motor or you are replacing or rebuilding it.

 

[284 International]

I think you've fixed it, but found some other stuff to deal with. It can be very easy to get overzealous trying to crank these things to get them to started when they have lost prime. As the others have said, a good cleaning (and maybe new terminals on the ends if they look corroded or loose), and a freshly charged battery will get you up and running again.

Since the power needed to run a starter motor is amps divided by volts, if battery voltage is low the current required must increase proportionally, and that extra current generates potentially damaging heat. Hopefully the starter is still sound; you may get lucky.

 

[silvertramp]

Battery cables can also corrode under the insulation. I was boosting an old MF and a cable caught fire in the middle.