Would you buy a NG powered truck?

[rambler]

I'm just saying NG should be sold for what it cost to produce, profits for those involved transportation, compression, retail sales etc. not tied to the price of imported gasoline.

I understand your view and I too dislike price gouging.

On the other hand, here in MN, all my petro fuels come from Canada, so prices really never should have gone up in the last few mid-east 'crisis' situation. Only those on the east coast really shoulda paid, since they are the only one's who buy much Mid-east crude......

Now, that doesn't sound fair either, does it?

Currently we are not using so much perto fuels, but our refiners have found the world is willing to pay quite a bit for liquid fuels, and our cheap USA dollar makes our refined fuels look cheap. So, fuel prices go up, even if we are using less and appear to have a 'glut' of refined fuel - someone else is willing to pay more.....

Really, really hard to put price controls on something and expect that business to stay solvent.

I surely understand your issue with price gouging, but sometimes we just have to accept it as part of business, and understand that over a 10 year period we come out far better allowing a bit of price gouging and a bit of speculation.

An uncomfortable bump is prices for a bit, but still and all in your example natural gas would offer a cheaper price for transportation that gasoline, so they are not harming anyone, they are offering a cheaper alternative - in your example. Along the way, they would develop and create a lot of jobs and wealth and new processes to create better new different energy system. So down the road 10 years, we'd have a better ecconomy, more jobs, and a stronger, cheaper fuel supply in the long term.

Worrying about price-controlling a business for the short term - as you gentley suggest - so often backfires in the long term and leaves us all so much poorer and with fewer options.

This is a big heavy topic, don't think I want to persue it here, but mytake on such things. I do understand how frustrating such bumps in prices can be, and how unfair they seem for a bit, I understand where you are coming from.

--->Paul

 

[rambler]

Home compressor units start at about $5000. These compressors yield about a half a gallon gasoline equivalent per hour. If you need an eight gallon fill that's sixteen hours attached to your compressor.

And then there are these guys called building inspectors/zoning inspectors/fire inspectors that may frown on your installation.

Out here on the farm we are many miles from the nearest natural gas. LP, diesel, and electric are our options.

And, I can go through 70 gallons of diesel in a day here in spring or fall, so those 'cheap' compressors won't cut it. Then, the problem will be draw - as I mentioned in a previous message, when home heating starts up around here in MN, the big ng fired grain driers get put on standby because there is too much demand on the pipelines.

Imagine if all us farmers fired up our gas compressors each morning, we'd suck that pipe dry and everyone would get to relight their pilot lights.

Much of this can be overcome with better ideas, proper metering, more pipelines, etc.; I realize that. But all that takes money & time.

And as a farmer, i well understand your caution on having a compressed ng station in every garage - clearly not needed in towns, but those of us bigger users in remote areas, we need access and at a price we can afford.

Things to consider. Not against the idea, just going to take time and money, and see if we can overcome the issues.

--->Paul

 

[timster2]

My point is that CNG, E85, gasoline and Diesel are all different fuels. Each one should have an independent price structure that reflects the normal fluctuations that are expected for any fuel. I don't want to see price controls on fuels just a level playing field.

The price for gasoline is not tied to Diesel on a percentage basis. For example the price of gasoline is the price of Diesel less 20%. Neither should the price for CNG at the pump be gasoline less 20%. And if you have a home compressor how should the price structure be handled, separate gas meters so you could be charged a higher price or discount for the fuel you put into your car?

I don't know the answer but wonder when there are enough vehicles on the road how it will all be handled. How will road taxes be collected if you compress your own gas? Lots of things to work out. I would just like CNG to be sold as a separate commodity and not tied to another fuel. Given the opportunity to compete in the market place I think CNG will become popular, however, it will take some time.

 

[timster2]

One of the ways to offset high demand on a pipeline is with storage. In Brooklyn, NY the gas company uses surplus supply in the summer and warmer days in the winter to fill their LNG storage tanks. They have a liquefaction plant at their facility and store gas for high demand days. The LNG serves as a buffer for the pipeline. LNG, however, has its own safety concerns.

Another way that gas companies make up for low volume is to introduce propane into the natural gas pipeline. Thats OK unless you have a compressor of your own then the propane liquifies causing problems. You also end up with an inconsistent quality of fuel.

 

[tcartwri]

If the engines are built specifically for LPG or CNG, not this dual fuel nonsense, they can actually make as much or more power than gasoline.

 

[Johnp33]

I was listening to the business channel and they were saying that GE and someone else was looking into setting up a fueling station network for Natural gas and that even with a 50 thousand dollar premium for a class eight the payback is in 1.5 years. The engine a Cummins is not the difference it is the fuel tank. The price is 1.80 a gallon comparable to diesel.
I worked at a Detroit dealership, and we built a bunch of gen sets for a gas pipeline, from 8V71's and they dynod the same HP and output as the diesel variant, the modifications done were the heads came off the governor was removed, and a cover plate installed, one air box cover had a pop off valve attached it looked like a muffler of a two cycle gas mower.
The heads they pulled the injector tubes and installed spark plugs, removed the injector rocker arms and cam follower. the heads were put on with a 3/8 spacer plate that looked like the top of the block on one side and the bottom of the head on the other, you put in a set of head gaskets on the block, then the plate then anouther set of gaskets, and then the head.
The top of the blower was removed and a set of three carburetors installed. The left rear cam cover plate was removed and a mag distributor was installed, the valve covers were different to accommodate the spark plugs and wires.
Running a pick-up with Duel fuel is dumb it does not work well with either that way. Natural gas and Propane need 14 to 1 compression and a different cam.

 

[rsewill]

I was listening to the business channel and they were saying that GE and someone else was looking into setting up a fueling station network for Natural gas and that even with a 50 thousand dollar premium for a class eight the payback is in 1.5 years. The engine a Cummins is not the difference it is the fuel tank. The price is 1.80 a gallon comparable to diesel.
I worked at a Detroit dealership, and we built a bunch of gen sets for a gas pipeline, from 8V71's and they dynod the same HP and output as the diesel variant, the modifications done were the heads came off the governor was removed, and a cover plate installed, one air box cover had a pop off valve attached it looked like a muffler of a two cycle gas mower.
The heads they pulled the injector tubes and installed spark plugs, removed the injector rocker arms and cam follower. the heads were put on with a 3/8 spacer plate that looked like the top of the block on one side and the bottom of the head on the other, you put in a set of head gaskets on the block, then the plate then anouther set of gaskets, and then the head.
The top of the blower was removed and a set of three carburetors installed. The left rear cam cover plate was removed and a mag distributor was installed, the valve covers were different to accommodate the spark plugs and wires.
Running a pick-up with Duel fuel is dumb it does not work well with either that way. Natural gas and Propane need 14 to 1 compression and a different cam.

Thanks for the description.

 

[bdeboer]

I work for a government agency that's been using CNG vehicles for about a decade. We have Honda civics. Ford trucks chevy trucks and trolley viewmobiles. Not sure who makes those.
We have our own in house refueling station with four pumps. Cost like 2 million to install.
My specific work facility has a chevy 2006 HD 2500 4x4 with snow plow. My main complaint is the mileage. When used for plowing it averages 75-100 miles per tank. On days when we plow all day it's refueled three times.
Also the fuel tank takes up 1/4 of the bed against the cab. And you need be careful nothing rolls into it or damages it.
I also believe it takes approx 65 gallons of coolant. Lines run all around the fuel tank to keep temps down.
Last complaint is it's gutless, but that may be because it's a chevy.

We were kinda forced into this CNG thing because our fleet needs to be a certain percentage of alternative fuels. Thats from the state officials.

I think mpg is going to be poor no matter what you plow with

 

[bdeboer]

Double post?

 

[two_bit_score]

Double post?