Are you well prepared for a tornado?

   / Are you well prepared for a tornado? #21  
Probably a good idea to place valuables in a safe place but after all this preparation, what are the odds you won't be home when a tornado strikes? That might make an interesting survey.

And one more thought. How many people have you heard of that died from not being rescued from their shelter that was blocked by debris?
 
   / Are you well prepared for a tornado? #22  
Probably a good idea to place valuables in a safe place but after all this preparation, what are the odds you won't be home when a tornado strikes? That might make an interesting survey.

And one more thought. How many people have you heard of that died from not being rescued from their shelter that was blocked by debris?

My odds of being at work and not home are pretty good. But my work is in a reinforced concrete building built like a bunker. Not concerned about that part. Getting home would be a chore, though, as there are just plain bad neighborhoods between home and work. Fortunately, most folks would be in shock and not out to rob you right after a disaster. Its a few days later that bad things start to happen.

As for anyone dying trapped in their shelter... I've never heard of one that I can recall.
 
   / Are you well prepared for a tornado? #24  
I have not seen many "safe rooms" that are built above ground that I would want to be in during an F5. We have seen many tornadoes on Oklahoma. When you consider objects the size and weight of automobile and larger being thrown around and slammed into the structure most I have seen may not stand up. External storm shelter below ground for us. Yes it is a pain to go outside to get in.

Have you seen a safe room that was in a walk out basement with 12 inch thick steel reinforced concrete walls (some backed by dirt) and a FEMA approved door facing away from the glass doors and windows and with a ceiling with a mat off N-S and E-W rebar plus monolithic beams on 24 inch centers with two each 1 inch rebars in each and a concrete thickness of 14 inches?

The above ground unit I built for my mom has 14-16 inch thick ceiling and 12 inch walls with so much rebar it is basically a steel box with some concrete around it. There are 5/8 rebar prebent 2x2 ft corners connecting all the corners together as well as connecting the floor to the walls and walls to ceiling. The floor is doweled into the garage floor slab and there are piers augered under the floor at angles with rebar tied to the floor rebar, not straight down to make pulling it up way harder. The FEMA approved HD steel door is "Improved" by the addition of multiple horizontal angle irons on both sides and there are three HD dead bolts. Oh, the 5/8 and 3/4 rebar is on 8 inch centers both vertically and horizontally with two mats in ceiling.

I live on a dead end road out in the country. I saw the movie twister but nearest 18 wheelers are a ways off but probably would not come through the ceilings of these structures anyway if dropped from orbit. The truck is bigger than the room so would have do destroy the walls as well, an unlikely event, not just the ceiling. Now if the twister stopped off at a military installation like Tinker and picked up some thermonuclear warheads then you got me, I shoulda made a shelter in the ground accessed from outside in the rain, hail, lightning, and then fret over whether or not to use it because of the rain, hail, lightning, etc.

Thanks anyway, I'll just go to bed and sleep with no worries and not stay up watching the weather on TV to see if they can scare me out into the storm to access protection.

I seriously doubt there are many safe rooms that are safer than these. There are limits. Once you reach a level of strength well in excess of the danger you are countering, more is not particularly better, i.e. overkill/over engineered. I think I am a poster child for adequate storm safety.

Underground shelters if used religiously are definitely a good way to go as they are much more cost effective than my monstrosities. They can be made as safe as mine for way less $ but... I had a promise to keep to my wife of a bedroom that was a safe room. I have confidence in the safety of all three safe rooms I built above ground. I took considerable ribbing from a friend with a masters in mechanical engineering and 35 years hands on experience but I don't mind since my wife "feels" safe and I know she is.

My mom was born and raised in Oklahoma and my dad came when he was 11. He and my mom saw exactly one tornado their whole lives, the same one, in downtown Lima, Ohio. Unless you chase them or see them on TV you sure beat the law of averages to see many.

Pat
 
   / Are you well prepared for a tornado?
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Probably a good idea to place valuables in a safe place but after all this preparation, what are the odds you won't be home when a tornado strikes? That might make an interesting survey.

And one more thought. How many people have you heard of that died from not being rescued from their shelter that was blocked by debris?

Spouse and I are retired so we are home much of the time. You do raise an interesting point about that...and as for being blocked into your own shelter, that is exactly why I have those pair of wrecking bars stored in my understair area.
 
   / Are you well prepared for a tornado? #26  
How well prepared do you need to be? How much is enough? I confess I had just recently seen "Twister" when I designed and built my mom's shelter. Not an appropriate info source but what is?

Down in Baja Oklahoma (AKA Texas) they have university researchers doing sound science in this area of storm safety and it is very interesting to see their results. They have a stud cannon powered by air like the "Chunkin Punkin" guys. They shoot wooden studs out of their cannon at tornado debris speeds into 8x8 ft sections of walls made to different plans. One of the standard walls is 2x4 or 2x6 studs on 16 inch centers with house wrap, sheeting, and vinyl siding on the outside and sheetrock on the inside. Even if the fired stud/missile hits a stud in the wall it goes through like a hot knife through butter. You don't want to be behind that wall.

Another style wall is as above but without the siding and with brick instead. Most brick houses are actually brick "veneer" as the brick is not load bearing, just added over the structure. Studs out of the cannon go right through the brick and the rest of the wall about as easily as with the vinyl siding example.
Again, you don't want to be behind this wall.

What about a concrete block wall? Also not good unless the block are filled and plenty of rebar is used. Cast concrete walls cause the stud to be completely stopped with only a little marring of the surface, no cracking or spalling. How much concrete, how thick does it need to be? They have tested different thicknesses.

What about ICF construction? There are flat slab type ICF in various thicknesses but how thick is thick enough? There are also concrete efficient styles of ICF that use less concrete and give good strength for the amount of concrete used. A couple of these are: 1. waffle pattern and 2. Post and beam. Waffle looks like the name suggests and takes less material because it is not of uniform thickness. Post and beam has the equivalent of cast columns (posts) intersected by horizontal beams. Between these there is a thin meniscus of concrete. Both of these material conserving styles caused me concern for fear that high speed debris would penetrate if it hit a thin spot.

So when I built my master suite/safe room using ICF I elected for a full 10 inches with no thin spots. Well, so much for my worries... Years later subsequent tests with the stud cannon showed NO PENETRATION with either of the material conservative styles. No front surface cracking or penetration, just a little surface marring. There was no backside cratering (spalling.) Oh well, I'm safe OK just spent way more on concrete than required. I'm not unhappy.

Unanswered question: How thick do you need to make the concrete to stop tornado tossed studs hitting on end (on end is worst case.) The stud cannon guys found anything over 2 inches, properly backed and supported stopped a stud. Being a conservative sort I would always go for more than 2 inches.

Other than concrete...? Steel sheet metal does a great job of stopping the studs. It gets deformed but the stud does not penetrate. I confess I don't recall the thickness required but I do recall being surprised at how thin it was and worked so well. Sheet metal kits are available for lining the inside of a closet. You supply the dimensions and they supply the custom kit with steel door frame and door. Easy project for a DIY project. I do recall the kits supplied thicker metal than the metal that stopped the studs from the cannon. With traditional stud wall construction you can put on a layer of sheet metal(I'd use galvanized) and storm tossed debris will not come through the wall. This leaves windows.

There are several manufacturers of hurricane shutters. NOT GOOD FOR TORNADO PROTECTION!!! If during a storm a tornado tosses debris at your house and you are standing in line with a window then you are toast even if your walls are concrete or have sheet metal inside. Get near the wall between windows if your wall is debris proof.

A better solution is interior storm shutters. I got 'em and I like 'em. Retrofitting them would be way harder than designing them in up front as I did but could be done in concert with pulling your siding, adding sheet metal, and then reattaching the siding. These measures would protect you from flying debris which is the number one killer but if you took a direct hit you would be toast unless you have construction on the order of what I did.

Pat
 
   / Are you well prepared for a tornado? #27  
Spouse and I are retired so we are home much of the time. You do raise an interesting point about that...and as for being blocked into your own shelter, that is exactly why I have those pair of wrecking bars stored in my understair area.

Outswing doors blocked by debris will entomb you. Inswing doors require extra measures on the inside of the sheltered area to keep them in place against intrusion by debris but at least can be opened to give access to the debris so your wrecking bars, axe, saw, and bottle jack can be employed.

Pat
 
   / Are you well prepared for a tornado? #28  
I have not seen many "safe rooms" that are built above ground that I would want to be in during an F5. We have seen many tornadoes on Oklahoma. When you consider objects the size and weight of automobile and larger being thrown around and slammed into the structure most I have seen may not stand up. External storm shelter below ground for us. Yes it is a pain to go outside to get in.

The FEMA website has plans and specification for above and below ground shelters. I would feel safe following their guidelines.

A basement is better than a nothing but by itself it is not a storm shelter. One still needs a strong roof over the shelter even in the basement. In the last series of tornadoes I read of one women who lost her legs while in the basement because of debris, seems someone else was killed in a basement, and a baby being pulled out of a mother's arms while in the basement.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Are you well prepared for a tornado? #29  
A basement is a terrific head start on a safe room. A corner gives you a floor and two walls. All you need to add is a ceiling, two walls (if you want traditional rectangular space) and a door. Some folks prefer a serpentine or maze-like entry with no door at all. These styles of entry are popular with public shelters.

If I didn't have a guest room/safe room in the walkout basement I'd have made the wall between the basement kitchen and the equipment room (has HVAC stuff) concrete and that would have made a safe room very easily and inexpensively.

Pat
 
   / Are you well prepared for a tornado? #30  
...and as for being blocked into your own shelter, that is exactly why I have those pair of wrecking bars stored in my understair area.
So you are still thinking you'll never be found by search and rescue people and you must cut, pry and force your way out?
 

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