Ford Focus Hated. Who did not see this coming?

[powerpace]

I see SUV's with no rust on their hitches in accidents with small cars often and I have never seen a small car win in and accident with the SUV and the clean hitch.

I'll keep my clean hitch, pay through the nose for my fuel, and KEEP both my legs in a head on accident with all the unlicensed illegal aliens driving around.

Hey what od we have here...a white pick up truck ...does it have a hitch. I know it doesn't have a scratch on it.

Dodge Ram vs. Prius - Bad Accident - PriusChat Forums


Looks bad and both drivers were injured. Most of the damage you see on the Prius Drivers side is from the drivers extraction. Read the comments on the link site.

 

[Monster5601]

Prius has crumple zones and have very good protection.

Are you implying the Prius is the only vehicle or vehicle class that has energy absorbent zones?

 

[timster2]

My first thought is why do people have a car in New York anyway. Public transportation is available. A monthly Parking space can cost what many people pay for house rent for a month.

The city's total area is 468.9 square miles, five counties. Most people think of NYC as Manhattan or other densely populated sections. Public transportation, although available, does not work for everyone. When I was in high school I walked a little over a half mile to the bus stop, then two buses to get to school. If I were to take public transportation to work it would have been two hour commute each way, nine miles distance. It took me just over twelve minutes by car, albeit at four thirty AM, I started work at five.

My commute would have been perfect for an electric vehicle. If I was still working there I would consider leasing one, not sure I want to own one for too long after the warranty expires. All that computer power will be costly to repair not to mention replacing the batteries and dealer only support.

 

[JasG]

Another issue with the Hybrid and electrical cars. They are being marketed as a "green" car that is better than a gasser. This may have come up already, but most of the studies I have seen show they are worse because of the amount of resources they use. Copper, lithium and a bunch of rare earth metals all come from mining. Many far from where the batteries and other parts are being made.

Here are a couple of articles on the subject.

Chinese Electric Car Pollution More Harmful to Humans Than Gas Cars - US News and World Report

The Rare-Earth Crisis - Technology Review

Why don't you dig out a scientific analysis that documents your point. The face validity of your assertion is poor but I'm willing to listen if you can back it up. In God we trust, all others must show data.

I can't find the original study, but have seen a lot of stories that site studies done by the University of Tennessee that show they pollute more. The studie was done by Chris Cherry, assistant professor in civil and environmental engineering.

I've read other information on the mining of the rare earth metals that allow these to work. They seem to show a great impact before the cars even hit the road.

 

[IslandTractor]

I can't find the original study, but have seen a lot of stories that site studies done by the University of Tennessee that show they pollute more. The studie was done by Chris Cherry, assistant professor in civil and environmental engineering.

I've read other information on the mining of the rare earth metals that allow these to work. They seem to show a great impact before the cars even hit the road.

Not sure who Chris Cherry is but given he his from Tennessee he probably used old coal fired plants as the source of his hypothetical electricity. As noted in an earlier post that is certainly the dirtiest option but luckily most highly populated (eg urban) areas of the US do not rely as heavily on coal for power generation. Hydro, nukes, natural gas and of course renewables like wind and solar are far cleaner than even modern coal fired plants so would pollute far less.

Rare earth metals for lithium batteries etc is not limited to cars. I would guesstimate that we use 100x as much of those metals for ipods, iphones etc etc as for car batteries. If this is an issue down the road then alternative battery technology will come in. Why do you worry about mining rare earth metals but not oil tar or strip mining of coal?

 

[JasG]

Not sure who Chris Cherry is but given he his from Tennessee he probably used old coal fired plants as the source of his hypothetical electricity. As noted in an earlier post that is certainly the dirtiest option but luckily most highly populated (eg urban) areas of the US do not rely as heavily on coal for power generation. Hydro, nukes, natural gas and of course renewables like wind and solar are far cleaner than even modern coal fired plants so would pollute far less.

Rare earth metals for lithium batteries etc is not limited to cars. I would guesstimate that we use 100x as much of those metals for ipods, iphones etc etc as for car batteries. If this is an issue down the road then alternative battery technology will come in. Why do you worry about mining rare earth metals but not oil tar or strip mining of coal?

Here is a perfect example of the problem with the eco movement. You wanted facts I gave you some sources. It goes against what your preconceived notions are, so you blow it off. Rare earths in your mind we will just invent new batteries, OK why don't we have them now?

See I believe in conservation, to best use our resources to get the most from them. I worry about rare earths because from what I am reading if we were to try and go head long all electric, there are not enough of them. Yet all estimates are coal and oil will be here for a very long time. Long enough for things to develop that will allow us to take the next step. Not take the next step and hope someone is able to put something that doesn't currently exist under our feet. Also polution is polution where it starts does not matter. Is it not better to use the sources that have the least impact?

I would love to see an electric world work. I work on and repair the very things that make these cars possible, PLC's, VFD, etc. I also though know full well the limitations of this tech we have right now.

 

[IslandTractor]

Here is a perfect example of the problem with the eco movement. You wanted facts I gave you some sources. It goes against what your preconceived notions are, so you blow it off. Rare earths in your mind we will just invent new batteries, OK why don't we have them now?

See I believe in conservation, to best use our resources to get the most from them. I worry about rare earths because from what I am reading if we were to try and go head long all electric, there are not enough of them. Yet all estimates are coal and oil will be here for a very long time. Long enough for things to develop that will allow us to take the next step. Not take the next step and hope someone is able to put something that doesn't currently exist under our feet. Also polution is polution where it starts does not matter. Is it not better to use the sources that have the least impact?

I would love to see an electric world work. I work on and repair the very things that make these cars possible, PLC's, VFD, etc. I also though know full well the limitations of this tech we have right now.

A) I don't consider myself part of the "eco" movement, I think I am just reasonably concerned about both the economics/resources and science/technology that will be necessary to accommodate the 10+ billion people on this planet in the near future.

B) I did not mean to dismiss the notion that rare earth elements may be a bottleneck or roadblock to developing electric vehicle technology but meant simply that we will find alternatives if necessary. Hard to imagine that lithium batteries are the end of the road in electric storage technology and eventually we will find more efficient electric motors too.

C) Even with no electric vehicles, the rare earth element issue will be a challenge. How many non electric vehicle products require rare earth elements? A quick review of Lanthanide elements shows the vast majority of use is to create catalytic converters (presumably not for electric vehicles), glass polishing, petroleum refining, lasers and permanent magnets (not all of which are used in electric vehicles).

I rather doubt that rare earth elements are the real barrier to successful conversion of a portion of our transport system to electric propulsion. They are however clearly a red herring being blithely thrown into debates without explanation.

 

[two_bit_score]

Not quite sure what you are yammeriing about here. The discussion is cars not healthcare and incentives not insurance.

I don't own and don't plan to own an electric vehicle any time soon but it still seems reasonable to support developing the technology. In the 21st century that means government incentives unless you want to cede that area to China as well. Maybe you'd just rather go back to horse and buggy once fuel prices double again due to increased world demand. Dream on if you think there is an endless supply of cheap oil just waiting to be tapped.

You evidently refuse to acknowledge the simple comparison between your falsehoods and Obama's.

 

[Oaktree]

2008 Prius 170,000 miles. Wife drives 150 miles round trip to work three times per week. Compared to our previous vehicle we saved over $15,000 in four years. Compared to the Dodge 1500. We would have saved $21,000 in a four period.
Insurance gives a 10% discount for Hybrid.

OK, we get it...you're a Prius fanboi. You're welcome to it. Your comments only underscore the common opinion that 'most everyone who buys one does so to make a statement "look how green I am". Even if it was the reincarnation of the Yugo I'm not sure the bragging would diminish one bit.

My BIL had one a few years ago, had a chance to drive it a couple times. Didn't care for it in the least. Between the anemic acceleration, weird-feeling brakes, poor visibility and poor ergonomics (whose bright idea was it to put the instrument cluster in the middle of the dash instead of in front of the driver where it belongs?) it was not pleasant to drive.

Comparing fuel economy to a full sized pickup is apples and oranges....compare it to a similar sized car like a Civic or Corrola and most of the "savings" evaporate.

 

[powerpace]

Are you implying the Prius is the only vehicle or vehicle class that has energy absorbent zones?

Americans for Fuel Efficient Cars

I can't think of any modern cars that don't have that protection. The larger vehicles Pickup, SUV's are more dependent on mass and limited crumple zones.
Read the link and find out why more deaths and injury's result in SUV and pickup crashes. Midsize cars actually have less fatality's even though there are many more on the road.
SUV's and pickups that rollover are only 3% of accidents but they cause 30% of fatality's each year.
Having been a Firefighter/Paramedic for a number of years in Rescue/Ambulance/and Hospital and Mortuary I have seen the results of more that one-thousand accidents. I know what death looks like and where it comes from.