Rear tire leaking rimguard

[AKfish]

I personally enjoyed every minute of it and made some great friends even though it took 16,000 Lbs of air pressure. Glad yours was a simple solution pOpeye.

Indeed... 16K is probably as good an estimate as any.

Snap responses, quick replies; no instinct to attempt to "read-between-the-lines"; let alone recognize "tongue-in-cheek" attempts at humor.

I've certainly fallen into those potholes, before! The beauty of email-like communication.

Heck, I'm havin' a really, really good day if I only misunderstand my wife AND kids at least a dozen different times! And, that's face to face..

As well; it's always a good response with my family to say - "increase the air pressure" - when you're not sure what they really mean...

Shuts 'em up; everytime!

AKfish

 

[xtn]

Well, thank you for all that xtn. You shoudn't have. Please read the post above. I am a bit confused with your exclamations however. S219 states pressures have nothing to do with it and your first word seems to agree with that. "Yup" you say but go on to state they can. If the liquid cannot be compressed as the air would, how could the air force out more ballast? Wouldn't the leak increase or decrease based on the weight of the ballast itself and where the leak was in relation to the ballast if indeed liquids are so difficult if not impossible with these amounts of air pressure to compress?

Sorry for the confusion. While the liquid cannot be compressed, it can be under pressure. The harder you squeeze on the plunger of a syringe, the faster the liquid shoots out of the end other end. Same thing.

And yes the weight of the liquid itself provides some pressure. Even without additional air pressure above it, a column of liquid will leak faster through a hole near its bottom than it will through the same hole near its top. Additional pressure applied by compression is additive throughout the vessel and would speed up either leak accordingly.

xtn

 

[arrow]

I think the type of leak the op had was more about an any point leak rather than a pin hole. In this case an increase in pressure was actually called for as a result of the characteristics as to why it was leaking in the first place. I did not want the op to be concerned about increasing a leak by adding air pressure as it may have prevented him in doing what he had to do to fix the leak in the first place.I can understand what you are saying though as if there was a leak of any sort, it would provide an "exit" point or a path of least resistance as opposed to an air tight container where air pressure at such small amounts would do very little to compress the fluid.

 

[arrow]

Indeed... 16K is probably as good an estimate as any.

Snap responses, quick replies; no instinct to attempt to "read-between-the-lines"; let alone recognize "tongue-in-cheek" attempts at humor.

I've certainly fallen into those potholes, before! The beauty of email-like communication.

Heck, I'm havin' a really, really good day if I only misunderstand my wife AND kids at least a dozen different times! And, that's face to face..

As well; it's always a good response with my family to say - "increase the air pressure" - when you're not sure what they really mean...

Shuts 'em up; everytime!

AKfish

You hit it right on the head AK. All of what we say on this forum can certainly be misinterpreted. This is not the kind of stuff to get "pressurized" from. Its always the learning experience for me whether its about the people or the actual subject of the original post. (ps. I was up your way 6 months ago. First time I was in Alaska. Pretty awesome place) By the way, I am told that 16K of pressure was at least needed to create the lock in a vessel of air and beet juice I joked about. As long as the vessel could withstand that kind of pressure that is. I don't think a tractor tire falls under that heading.

 

[s219]

You hit it right on the head AK. All of what we say on this forum can certainly be misinterpreted. This is not the kind of stuff to get "pressurized" from. Its always the learning experience for me whether its about the people or the actual subject of the original post. (ps. I was up your way 6 months ago. First time I was in Alaska. Pretty awesome place) By the way, I am told that 16K of pressure was at least needed to create the lock in a vessel of air and beet juice I joked about. As long as the vessel could withstand that kind of pressure that is. I don't think a tractor tire falls under that heading.

Keep in mind the 16000 psi just makes the air as dense as RimGuard so that there is no longer any difference in density, and the two fluids can mingle without buoyancy effects. But they still flow as fluids, and the tire/wheel still rotates around the fluids, stirring them up. The fluid in contact with the inner surfaces of the tire/wheel will move at the same speed as the wheel, but elsewhere in the volume it's going to be somewhere between that speed and zero. Due to friction in the fluids, there will always be some loss of speed as you get away from moving surfaces. In a big enough tire, the fluid in the centers could still be almost stationary.

It would be cool to build a plexiglass test rig that could simulate the interior volume of a tire, to see how fluid behaves under rotation with that air pocket at the top. I may pitch that idea to the next intern I get.... They are suckers for lab projects like that. And in case you think I am nuts, here's what flow looks like inside the annular space between two counter-rotating cylinders in a certain speed range:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEqvx0N_txI]Taylor Couette Flows - YouTube[/ame]

Interesting things happen when you start rotating fluids inside confined spaces.

 

[arrow]

Keep in mind the 16000 psi just makes the air as dense as RimGuard so that there is no longer any difference in density, and the two fluids can mingle without buoyancy effects. But they still flow as fluids, and the tire/wheel still rotates around the fluids, stirring them up. The fluid in contact with the inner surfaces of the tire/wheel will move at the same speed as the wheel, but elsewhere in the volume it's going to be somewhere between that speed and zero. Due to friction in the fluids, there will always be some loss of speed as you get away from moving surfaces. In a big enough tire, the fluid in the centers could still be almost stationary.

It would be cool to build a plexiglass test rig that could simulate the interior volume of a tire, to see how fluid behaves under rotation with that air pocket at the top. I may pitch that idea to the next intern I get.... They are suckers for lab projects like that. And in case you think I am nuts, here's what flow looks like inside the annular space between two counter-rotating cylinders in a certain speed range:

Taylor Couette Flows - YouTube

Interesting things happen when you start rotating fluids inside confined spaces.

If this was in a container that was flipped upside down and they were of the same density what would it take for the two materials not to rotate? Then they'd be acting as a solid. Would any amount of pressure create that effect?
I agree that this would be cool to look at what's going on. What is the highest pressure (internal) any container built was ever able to withstand if it were introduced gradually unlike an explosion. ( I do not think I'd want to be in the same building the day when they found out about how much force a dedicated pressure holding container was able to withstand)

 

[greg_g]

Somebody get a net. Please.

//greg//

 

[s219]

If this was in a container that was flipped upside down and they were of the same density what would it take for the two materials not to rotate? Then they'd be acting as a solid. Would any amount of pressure create that effect?

Not pressure, but temperature could do it if they were liquids and the temperature was reduced below their freezing point (probably stating the obvious there, but it's the only way it would happen). As long as you're above freezing, the liquids will "flow" and will be incapable of holding like a solid. The fundamental aspect is how the material responds under applied forces and accelerations. Fluids will always flow.

 

[arrow]

Not pressure, but temperature could do it if they were liquids and the temperature was reduced below their freezing point (probably stating the obvious there, but it's the only way it would happen). As long as you're above freezing, the liquids will "flow" and will be incapable of holding like a solid. The fundamental aspect is how the material responds under applied forces and accelerations. Fluids will always flow.

If the density of a gas with sufficient pressure creates a greater density than the liquid in the same container, it could never hold the liquid up? Would it even be possible to over come the density of the liquid without a total intermingling of the gas and liquid under such pressures?

 

[arrow]

Somebody get a net. Please.

//greg//

Now you're the one being silly.... you can't do this experiment with a net. It just won't hold the pressure.