Need advice on whole-house generators

[SPYDERLK]

You have to maintain constant pto speeds to run the generator,close to 540 to maintain 120 volts.[[Load has little bearing on fuel use with this combo.]]
Like I said ,I am happy with mine,when you need it you need it,it doesn't matter about a little fuel.
I purchased mine not only for my house but to run my incubators and hatchers if we lose power during that season.I would loose my business if I lost power during this time.
I hatch and raised ringneck pheasant.

Hi idle and hi rpm loaded consume much different fuel rate.
larry

 

[RoyJackson]

I would strongly recommend a diesel genset. First of all you get the best fuel consumption/cost with a diesel, especially if you buy off-road diesel or heating oil. Second diesel engines, at least good ones (not chinese junk) are among the most reliable engines, you can store the fuel for years without degradation, if you control moisture.

I have a kubota powered 10KW unit and I can far outlast my neighbors with their propane. As far as the cold weather, in N.E. PA the fuel has never had a problem in the cold weather, nor with starting. My genset is in a shed along with the fuel, so once it is running, the fuel is warmed by the engine.

I would recommend an 1800 RPM unit for long life and quiet operation. My previous was a 3600 RPM and the 1800 is so much nicer. I have a manual start and transfer, by choice, since I don't want it running when no one is home. I can start it from the house, so it is convenient even for the wife.

What brand is that, and where'd you buy it?

 

[sriddle1ny]

EMERGENCY POWER - SIMPLE BUT MET MY NEEDS: I had an Emergen Transfer Switch (see attached) integrated with my panel when I built my home. It took some planning but I had the (6) cut-over switches assigned to dedicated circuits supplying power to: Slantfin LP Boiler igniter and Taco circulation pumps (3 zone radiant heat); Majestic Fireplace insert blower motor; LP forced air furnace igniter and blower, refrigerator; LP Water heater igniter and power blower; family room and lastly, power to general area (for lighting) where I placed my Generac 7,500 watt portable generator. This set-up is inexpensive and overall reliability is based on the portable generator that provides power to the transfer switch, you'll have to make sure the electrician creates those dedicated circuits in your panel when wiring the house. My generator is gas powered however I've read several brands offer an LP adaptor kit if that's your fuel of choice. I've used it several times here in MN when the temps were -19 and all worked well, when I built my home I ran an underground cable from an implement barn some 100 feet away from the house location because of noise and fresh air/carbon monoxide concerns.

 

[techwrtr2]

If you all don't mind, I'm going to toss a penny into the mix (not sure it's worth more than that).

I also am considering a standby generator. I will not consider a PTO type unit for the simple reason that I don't reside the house where I'd place it, my parents do. Neither of them would be capable of mounting a PTO generator to the tractor and then connecting it to the house. Same with the little 5k generator they have now, while it's capable of powering the furnace and probably a few other things in winter, they would not be able to make the connections.

So,when you plot out what you will install consider how long you will be in that house and whether you will be able to utilize said PTO generator down the road. You may not.

Carry on.

 

[scott_vt]

There have been LOTS of threads on the +'s and -'s of PTO sets.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/222798-tractor-power-take-off-generator.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/222861-power-take-off-generator-one.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/215098-generator-options.html

There are four basic petroleum types for generators - Natural gas, LPG, diesel, gasoline, all readily available.

Upon review (in my memory) of what I've read here the general consensus was that a natural gas/lpg was more cost effective solution, cleaner, easier for a standby emergency generator in the 10 to 20K range.

BUT T - you need the infrastructure for nat gas/lpg.

Currently nat gas is CHEAP lpg is dear.

Nat gas is at a 10 year low:
The Associated Press: Natural gas prices stay at 10-year low

Propane follows crude oil:

Factors Affecting Propane Prices - Energy Explained, Your Guide To Understanding Energy

The infrastructure for nat gas is simple, if it already runs by your site. LNG seems rare. The infrastructure for LPG is ubiquitous, you can buy a bottle anywhere, even in a dry county.

Diesel and gasoline are dear, but almost everybody that is rural probably has at least 5 gallons sitting in their car or truck, or tractor.

So I had planned on a natural gas standby generator. But I bought a house nowhere near a natural gas line.

With the price of the remaining fuels being about the same a PTO gen set seems a clear winner for me. I'm probably going to have two tractors (seats) anyways and only have one seat (mine) to fill them. I've my infrastructure for significant diesel storage

And I anticipate requiring power at separate sites, my workshops are about 80 yards from the house and on a separate pole/meter.

So now I've another item to add to my Craigslist shopping cart.

Good Mornin Newbury,
Agreed on LNG being the cheapest, only problem very few rural locations have it running by their residence.

As for LPG, my last delivery was $2.17 / gal yesterday. Current price of #2 fuel or off road diesel is presently $3.50 to $3.75 / gal.....

That being said, a good diesel gen set is also an excellent choice, I wont debate that, its really what works for the user ! I just allways felt that you should try and get as many uses out of one fuel type as possible JMO !

 

[Pilot]

A couple questions:

How do maintenance costs of diesel compare to NG and propane. Years (decades, really) ago there was a push to convert cars to NG and one of the arguments was that it burned cleaner and engines would last longer.

Diesel pickups, as I understand it, require more frequent oil changes and some use very expensive filters.

So what's the maintenance situation for diesel? How often do you change the oil, what do filters cost?

 

[Hilltop Hillbilly]

A couple questions:

So what's the maintenance situation for diesel? How often do you change the oil, what do filters cost?

Along those same lines, be aware that there are both air-cooled and liquid-cooled propane generators.

The air-cooled units are about 1/2 the price of the liquid-cooled units, but only have about 1/10th the lifetime. According to many generator salesmen I've talked to, air-cooled units often only run around 300 hours before major work is needed. (almost as much a new unit costs)

So do take into consideration how often the power goes out, and if you need a unit that will give you more hours to meet the years of use you expect.

Example 1: Power goes out for 8 hours a year, 300hours generator life = 37.5 years of service. Not a bad investment for $5000.

Example 2: Power goes out for 30 hours a year, 300hours generator life = 10 years of service. Not as good an investment for $5000. Maybe the $10000 liquid-cooled generator would be a better choice.

Example 3: Power goes out for 50 hours a year, 300hours generator life = 6 years of service. Not a good investment for $5000. I'd definitely buy the $10000 liquid-cooled generator.


HH

 

[sfloggie]

We too live in a rural area with no electricity at all, but we have only a barn on the land. Yet we may add more in the future.
The utility company would provide the electricity underground for 2100 feet and then pole with transformer. They wanted us to deed them an easement, so we said no thank you.

We are having a Siemens (Generac) 14Kw Guardian series installed next week plus the panel, transfer switch, switches, wiring, lights and LP tanks.

This will be our primary source of power.

 

[newbury]

Good Mornin Newbury,
Agreed on LNG being the cheapest, only problem very few rural locations have it running by their residence.

As for LPG, my last delivery was $2.17 / gal yesterday. Current price of #2 fuel or off road diesel is presently $3.50 to $3.75 / gal.....

That being said, a good diesel gen set is also an excellent choice, I wont debate that, its really what works for the user ! I just allways felt that you should try and get as many uses out of one fuel type as possible JMO !

I was discussing PTO primarily. Which for me is diesel. IF one has LPG set up already and doesn't have to buy a tank etc., it's an excellent way to go for a stationary generator.

There are kits to adapt normal gasoline generators to natural and LPG. I'm looking into getting one for my present medium sized generator.
/edit - lpg prices in my Ms area are $2.90/gal

One of my "mantras" focuses on stool. You need at least three legs for a good stool.

I like to be able to have 3 things for backup. I never can know when things I can't expect to fail will fail. Who ever expected the east coast to have such a warm winter? I got chains for my tractor and put up a cord of wood!! Totally useless!!

I probably should buy up some a/c units to ensure a cool summer!

 

[brin]

We too live in a rural area with no electricity at all, but we have only a barn on the land. Yet we may add more in the future.
The utility company would provide the electricity underground for 2100 feet and then pole with transformer. They wanted us to deed them an easement, so we said no thank you.

We are having a Siemens (Generac) 14Kw Guardian series installed next week plus the panel, transfer switch, switches, wiring, lights and LP tanks.

This will be our primary source of power.

I am surprised you did not grant them an easement...that is common, in fact it is hard to buy a piece of property or acreage anywhere near civilization where utility companies do not already have easements... If you change your mind take comfort in knowing they will not trespass or harm your land..they just need an easement to be able to control the growth of brush around their pole and be able to access it without your permission in case repairs are needed.