Global Warming?

[rsewill]

So it is good that we are sending more $$$ to China???

And you would rather send money to the Middle East? And more troops?

 

[charlz]

Seems a lot of people can't read past the title:

No, I read it, just thought it was funny to throw it in here

 

[Rob-D]

Vermont bans fracking!

Vermont first state in nation to ban fracking for oil and gas

 

[houstonscott]

Vermont bans fracking!

Vermont first state in nation to ban fracking for oil and gas

That's fine, but if I was an oil company with fracked oil and gas I wouldn't sell it in Vermont, or I would raise prices in Vermont to $50 a gallon.

HS

 

[houstonscott]

OK, let me say this one more time:

Intelligence is the ability to constructively resolve one's problems. Period!

Now if someone here thinks that's a bad definition and has a better one I'm all ears.

That's the criteria I use to evaluate myself and everyone around me. So when someone tells me the cost of installing a PV system is inhibitive I ask them what they spent on their car, their big screen TV,etc., etc. that give them absolutely no return on their money when they only way not to notice the inhibitive cost of energy today is with one's head firmly planted in the proverbial sand.
We have a nation of 'it won't work' thinking and I find if you have that outlook.... it never works! My outlook is how can I make it work to my advantage.
Gee, I can'tafford to have someone come in a install a system for me, Oh you think I should figure out how to do it myself and save 50 to 70%! Not possible!

Senate Republicans reject Obama call to end 'big oil' tax breaks - CNN.com

Origins
The Congressional Research Service states the fledgling oil industry in the United States first received government assistance in 1916. That was when intangible drilling costs were able to be fully deducted from a company's expenses for tax purposes. In 1926, a write-off for cost depletion was introduced. That provision allowed oil companies to deduct costs based upon overall gross receipts and not just the actual value of the oil.

Does that sound familiar? They couldn't make it without gov help!

So we give oil companies subsidies, why? Because they lobby this country to the tune of billions of dollars to get them.

Fossil Fuel Subsidies | The Price of Oil

"How much money does the U.S. government give oil, gas and coal companies?
Estimates of the value of U.S. federal subsidies to the domestic oil and gas industry alone (not coal) range from ç™»nly $4 billion a year, to an amazing $41 billion annually. One recent comprehensive study of U.S. energy subsidies (see graph below) identified $72.5 billion in federal subsidies for fossil fuels between 2002-2008, or just over $10 billion annually. For more information on the range of subsidies, see below.

But in the end, it proved to be an uphill battle to get the Super Committee to take a stand on fossil fuel subsidies and perhaps thatç—´ not so surprising, given the influence of fossil fuel industry money on the Super Committee. Eight Super Committee members received over $300,000 in contributions from the fossil fuel industry since 1999: Senators Back us (D-MT), Kyl (R-AZ), Portman (R-OH), and Toomey (R-PA), and Representatives Camp (R-MI), Clyburn (D-SC), Hensarling (R-TX), and Upton (R-MI)."

Sure industry gets 'tax breaks' but why are we giving the API those breaks? Are we getting a deal at the pump?

Rob

Now lets balance that with what oil companies give government and your argument disappears by 100 times. You see governments don't subsidize oil, big oil subsidizes governments. Governments don't produce anything and they have no money, everything they have is taken from someone who earned or produced it. Once you understand that and if that light comes on for you, your life will change. That's why government is supporting solar, because the free market has looked at it and decided not to invest. There are simply not enough demand for solar to make anything much more than a cottage industry. Solar is for preppers and those who think some kind of collapse will leave them cut off from the grid or prices in the future will be so high they want to insure they have power in the future at todays prices. What the private market is investing their own money in is things like the algae. We are not going to go off gas and oil, the natural process that produces oil is going to be speeded up and harvested. And yes that oil will be burned and produce CO2. Solar and wind have already been sidelined and sidestepped as not commercially viable, and why no one is investing. People with billions to invest are not investing their money in solar and wind it is flowing to synthetic oils that might be produced quickly and cheaply and would flow into the current system.

HS

 

[Rob-D]

Now lets balance that with what oil companies give government and your argument disappears by 100 times. You see governments don't subsidize oil, big oil subsidizes governments. Governments don't produce anything and they have no money, everything they have is taken from someone who earned or produced it. Once you understand that and if that light comes on for you, your life will change. That's why government is supporting solar, because the free market has looked at it and decided not to invest. There are simply not enough demand for solar to make anything much more than a cottage industry. Solar is for preppers and those who think some kind of collapse will leave them cut off from the grid or prices in the future will be so high they want to insure they have power in the future at todays prices. What the private market is investing their own money in is things like the algae. We are not going to go off gas and oil, the natural process that produces oil is going to be speeded up and harvested. And yes that oil will be burned and produce CO2. Solar and wind have already been sidelined and sidestepped as commercial viable, and why no one is investing. People with billions to invest are not investing their money in solar and wind it is flowing to synthetic oils that might be produced quickly and cheaply and would flow into the current system.

HS

Give the government? You mean lobbies don't you!

Links would be nice to back up your statements.

Rob

 

[mostly_gas]

As I said, we can isolate a gas, measure it with respect to other gasses in a lab and evaluate the differences.

Very Good Rob.:thumbsup:

We can't do that outside a controlled environment. The planet is not a controlled environment.

Rob

Lets see ... I can think of three major factors in gas behavior, temperature, pressure and partial pressure the the observed gas. What is going to change the behavior of the gas that cannot be provided for in the lab?

 

[Egon]

Intelligence is the ability to constructively resolve one's problems. Period!

There might be some folks that will definitely have a differentt opinion!:thumbsup:

Now take myself, no problems; so I must be off the top end of the scale eh?

Or just to low on the scale to realise I got problems eh ?:laughing:

 

[mostly_gas]

You're late here, my intertie system cost me nothing! Actually I made money on it. My coop gave out incentives for PV installations.
I did pay for my off grid system but I put that in myself, it cost about 10k before gov. incentives.
Rob

I have been waiting for you to explain your free electricity. Your posts are all over the place as to costs and you have not mentioned any hours you have to get the system up and running. I really want to see a FULL accounting.

 

[crash325]

Give the government? You mean lobbies don't you!

Links would be nice to back up your statements.

Rob

Just love the round circle thinking of the Real Experts. Just keep going in circles and counterdicting yourselves.

Solar 10 / 15 years ago, clear back to 1983 and they are all still working at at least 90%. Wow a hole 90% of 75 watts. About 1 light bulb.

In the Last 10 years they are now putting out 250 watts.
If memory is correct I said "10 years ago solar panels were not much good. Isn't great they are still working. How many acres did you have to clear to put those suckers in?? All the stuff needed to make them even work is no longer needed. What did you do with all that junk that is not needed now???

Global Warming became "Climate Change" when it was found out all the Warmie scientists were faking data to support their claims.

Rob D
Now for about the 3rd time. Tell me how much worse global warming is than global cooling. Global Cooling in my mind would be far worse, so if were are warming maybe it will save our butts.

Links - links - links - What side of what do you want me to come down on, there is a link to support it.

I can and do think for myself, which it appears most of you greenies don't. As said before if being energy efficient does not fit into your Narrow Idea of what is green its no good.

How much used / recycled lumber & steel did you use when building your house and stands for your solar panels??? While I am using 1 PU you will go through several of you little green Subbies.

How much cleaner was it to move a house (stick built) than to build a new 1??? Building with Adobe self made (for you uninformed that's a Dirt brick) is a pretty green thing. Also walls made of them are what is considered "Passive Solar". Day time heat slowly comes in during night time cooling.

Said this before - try to hear it this time. I am no fan of Oil co's, was really screwed by ARCO many years ago.

With that said, Oil co's pay more taxes to the government than any other single industry. They are the single largest employer in the USA.

Gotta quit for now the Mexican Air Force is strafing my yard.