Axle location question

[jejeosborne]

OK I see, so what limit would I have for a 1/2 ton truck, for hitch weight? If I put 20% of say, 3500lbs, on the hitch that's 700lbs. I think my ball hitch, total, is rated for 10,000lbs but not 100% certain there. Not sure if it says, I ought to go look.

Most hitches have a tongue weight limit of 500 lbs without using a weight distribution setup. Here is my hitch sticker on a 2011 f150 with max tow. Move it back as far as possible without exceeding your hitch and payload limits. The tractor towing sounds scary on that short of trailer. As you know sway will bite you without enough tongue weight.

 

[handirifle]

Most hitches have a tongue weight limit of 500 lbs without using a weight distribution setup. Here is my hitch sticker on a 2011 f150 with max tow. Move it back as far as possible without exceeding your hitch and payload limits. The tractor towing sounds scary on that short of trailer. As you know sway will bite you without enough tongue weight.

The way it's set up it would be, but when I move it back shouldn't be too much of an issue. The tractor is only an MF1010, maybe 1500lbs, nowhere near the trailer limit.

Based on the posted table, moving the axle back 11" should more than do it.

 

[handirifle]

Thanks guys for the good info.

 

[Renze]

For passenger car trailers at my previous job, we allways set the axle 2 inches back. For a 3.5 ton trailer behind a van or light truck, we took a bit more, say 4 inches.
When pulling a 2 ton tractor behind my S70 i like to load the rear a bit more, i roll it back and forth on the trailer after driving a mile or so, trying untill i find a perfect balance before hitting the freeway.

As others have mentioned, check the drawbar rating of your car, truck or whatever you're pulling with. For proper towing you should load it quite, but not OVERload.

Also with bale trailers i made for my tractors, i allways figure the max safe (in handling as well as technical capacity) hitch load, then see where i place my axles.

Utilising the full permitted hitch load increases the total capacity of your trailer, its axle load plus hitch load.

Whats your tow vehicle ?

 

[jejeosborne]

The way it's set up it would be, but when I move it back shouldn't be too much of an issue. The tractor is only an MF1010, maybe 1500lbs, nowhere near the trailer limit.

Based on the posted table, moving the axle back 11" should more than do it.

The reason I mention the tractor is bacause you will not have any extra room to adjust the tractor on the trailer to change the center of gravity. The longer trailers allow you to move forward or rearward to get the proper tongue weight.

Since the tractor will be the most challenging item you put on it, I would set up the weight and balance properly with the tractor on it. I just went through this with a trailer I altered. I took it to the scales to get things right. Yours will be easier due to the smaller scale. I would load your tractor on the trailer and measure the tongue weight with a bathroom scale. Using two jacks with two small blocks, jack the trailer frame different distances back from the tongue until you achieve about 300 lbs on the tongue. Basically you are replicating your new axle location with the jacks.

Don't be too confident just because you are only towing 2000 lbs. A 2000 lb trailer with bad sway will easily overcome your truck.

Good luck.
Jeff

 

[handirifle]

Sorry, didn't mean to come of cocky, good points about the back n forth adjustments. The tow vehicle i my '06 DC Tundra 4x4. I also have a 5K, 29ft 5th wheel I tow with it as well.

I measured the actual bed of the trailer from front to back of gate, and it's 102" and the axle center is (ready for this) 49-50" from front of bed. No wonder it sways with a heavy load. Using the simple 60% rule it does need to go back 11".

So now I need to decide if I want to move it now or try to get my drop axle and new tires and wheels (to get rid of the mobile home type of wheels with the big open bolt pattern) and do it all at once. Are there drop axles that use the mobile home wheels? I know those are not the greatest, but money is tight and these are new tires ($100 each) with a good load rating. I doubt I would get half of what I have in them, back.

I can afford the axle but not tires and wheels too, yet.

 

[jejeosborne]

Sorry, didn't mean to come of cocky, good points about the back n forth adjustments. The tow vehicle i my '06 DC Tundra 4x4. I also have a 5K, 29ft 5th wheel I tow with it as well.

I measured the actual bed of the trailer from front to back of gate, and it's 102" and the axle center is (ready for this) 49-50" from front of bed. No wonder it sways with a heavy load. Using the simple 60% rule it does need to go back 11".

So now I need to decide if I want to move it now or try to get my drop axle and new tires and wheels (to get rid of the mobile home type of wheels with the big open bolt pattern) and do it all at once. Are there drop axles that use the mobile home wheels? I know those are not the greatest, but money is tight and these are new tires ($100 each) with a good load rating. I doubt I would get half of what I have in them, back.

I can afford the axle but not tires and wheels too, yet.

I bought a 3500lb complete idler axle with springs and hangers for $220 and 15" tires mounted on white steel rims for $75 each delivered to my door. Tax and shipping included from Great Wolf Trailers - Distributor of Trailer Parts, Landscape Racks, Truck Parts

The owner was very helpful and everything arrived perfect.

I will though warn you just one more time that the simple 60% rule may not work with your tractor. No room for error and 2-3 inches will make a significant change in that short of distance.

PS no attitude taken so no need to apologize but appreciate it.
Jeff

 

[bcp]

In the diagram from Dexter, the distance "A" from the hitch to the center of gravity should be with a loaded trailer, not empty. It would work OK using the empty CG if your load was evenly distributed, but a tractor is not. Put your tractor and whatever implement you would usually carry on the trailer, then find the balance point, and calculate from there.

Bruce

 

[joshuabardwell]

Most hitches have a tongue weight limit of 500 lbs without using a weight distribution setup.

With all due respect, I disagree. It's been my experience that most hitches can take 10% of their rated capacity, which is consistent with the general recommendation to have a 60/40 distribution on your trailer, which puts 10% of your trailer weight on your hitch. You've only got a 5000 lb tow capacity, so it's got a 500 lb weight limit. I have a 12,000 lb receiver, hitch, and ball on my truck. Each of them is rated at 1,200 lb weight limit. Again: I think that if you stay within your system's tow capacity, and correctly hit a 60/40 distribution of weight, which will place 10% of your towed weight on the hitch, you will probably be fine. But realistically, you are probably NOT going to hit 60/40 exactly, and you should probably assume as much as 20% of your towed weight is on your hitch and plan accordingly. Finally, there is no substitute for looking up the specs of your actual vehicle, receiver, hitch, ball, trailer, and etc... Nobody can really tell you what those are just by guessing and estimating.

I want to reiterate what someone else said, that you shouldn't forget your truck's rear axle weight rating. It's easy to miss that. You'll need to know the GAWR for the axle and the weight of the truck that is on the axle when the truck is empty. Unfortunately, most manufacturer's specs I have seen will give the curb weight of the truck, but won't break it out into front/rear axle weights, so you may have to take the truck by a Flying J or a Petro and put it on the scales to get a front and rear axle weight. This is more trouble than a lot of people ever go to, but if you are really concerned about safety, it's a must.

For perspective, here are the specs on my truck and trailer. This is the info that I use when determining whether a load is safe to carry. In reality, many of these specs are not relevant--for example, the front axle load will never really be exceeded, no matter how much I put in the truck, and because the truck is rated to tow 13,000 lbs, but I only have a 7,000 lb trailer, some of the truck's numbers will never be reached--but I like having them nevertheless. Also, the difference between the nominal and the actual curb weights is in part because the truck has the off-road package, which adds protective plates to the under-side. This is not taken into account in the nominal curb weights.

2005 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 SLT Quad Cab Short Bed 5.9L HO Diesel Engine

GVWR: 9000 lbs
GAWR (front): 5200 lb
GAWR (rear): 6010 lb
GCWR: 20000 lbs
Curb Weight: 6813 lbs (nominal) - 7220 lbs (weighed 3/8/2012)
Curb Weight (front axle): 4280 lbs
Curb Weight (rear axle): 2940 lbs
Max payload: 2187 lbs (nominal) - 1780 lbs (weighed 3/8/2012)
Payload (front axle): 920 lbs
Payload (rear axle): 3070 lbs
Max towing: 13050 lbs

Hitch / Receiver System

Receiver rating: 12000 lbs
Ball mount rating: 12000 lbs
Max tongue weight: 1200 lbs (shows 372 lbs on the scale jig)
Ball rating: 12000 lbs

Trailer Specs

GAWR (each axle): 3500 lbs
GVWR: 7000 lbs
Curb weight: 1620 lbs

Regarding GVWR, with a fully-loaded trailer (7000 lbs), expected tongue weight is about 700-1050 lbs if the trailer is properly loaded. Remaining payload capacity for the truck is 730 to 1080 lbs. Passenger weight must be subtracted from this number.

Regarding GAWR (rear), the remaining capacity is more than the payload capacity of the vehicle. If the entire payload was 100% on the rear axle, the loading on the axle would be 2940 + 1780 = 4720 lbs, which is 1290 lbs less than the GAWR. In other words, as long as you stay under GVWR, you never have to worry about exceeding the GAWR of the rear axle.

Regarding GCWR, with a fully-loaded trailer (7000 lbs), remaining capacity is 20000 7000 7220 = 5780 lbs. If we further assume that the truck is loaded to its full GVWR (including the tongue weight of the trailer), this adds an additional 730 to 1080 lbs of payload, for a remaining GCWR capacity of 4700 to 5050 lbs. GCWR will not become a limiting factor, since GVWR will be reached before GCWR is even approached. With the current trailer, GCWR can be ignored.

 

[jejeosborne]

With all due respect, I disagree. It's been my experience that most hitches can take 10% of their rated capacity, which is consistent with the general recommendation to have a 60/40 distribution on your trailer, which puts 10% of your trailer weight on your hitch. You've only got a 5000 lb tow capacity, so it's got a 500 lb weight limit. I have a 12,000 lb receiver, hitch, and ball on my truck. Each of them is rated at 1,200 lb weight limit. Again: I think that if you stay within your system's tow capacity, and correctly hit a 60/40 distribution of weight, which will place 10% of your towed weight on the hitch, you will probably be fine. But realistically, you are probably NOT going to hit 60/40 exactly, and you should probably assume as much as 20% of your towed weight is on your hitch and plan accordingly. Finally, there is no substitute for looking up the specs of your actual vehicle, receiver, hitch, ball, trailer, and etc... Nobody can really tell you what those are just by guessing and estimating.
.

I appreciate your being polite but I am indeed correct. You might want to reread your manual or look at your sticker on your hitch. If it came from the factory, I would bet it too is rated for 500-600 lbs without a weight distribution setup. Did you look at my picture I posted? My towing capacity for the truck is 11,300 lbs. Hitch is rated for 11500 lbs with a weight distribution draw bar and 5000 lbs without. I advise you to take your own advise and look up your specs. Here is a recent discussion which involved a f350. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/240799-new-receiver-avoid-wdh-setup.html

With the weights he is talking about putting on this little trailer, I doubt a weight distribuition hitch will be necessary.
Jeff