Global Warming?

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   / Global Warming? #1,341  
Some information on subsidies by energy source. First source includes the substantial hidden costs also.

Wind Power Subsidies Don稚 Compare to Fossil Fuel & Nuclear Subsidies - CleanTechnica

With wind getting it逞エ choice between a 2.2 cent PTC or a 30% first year tax credit or a cash grant, the production cost of wind energy is approximately 6.7 cents (4.5 cents plus 2.2 cents) minus whatever profit the owners put in their pockets. For comparison, coal wholesales for 5 cents but has approximately 18 cents in hidden costs and nuclear gets about 6 cents per kWh in subsidies, bringing its unsubsidized price up to about 10-12 cents per kWh.

So, without subsidies, prices would be something like this:
■Wind: 6-7 cents/kWh
■Nuclear: 11-20+ cents/kWh
■Coal: 9-32+ cents/kWh

Source: Clean Technica (Wind Power Subsidies Don稚 Compare to Fossil Fuel & Nuclear Subsidies - CleanTechnica)

Loren
The author brings up good points, but there seems a hopeless mixing of pertinent data that needs a lot of work to straighten out. The 10B vs 70B subsidy camparison between renewable and fossil sets up a 1/7 ratio. ... then the claim of ~$0.06 per kw subsidy for nuclear and fossil, vs ~$0.02 for wind. Considering the tremendous proportion of power supplied by the more conventional generation means that, even considering the wind/generic renewable proportion, their subsidys should reflect $ amounts thousands of times higher -NOT 7.
larry
 
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   / Global Warming? #1,342  
I'd suggest that both the major countries like India & China have the most to lose if their smartest scientists are totally wrong and the Himalayan Mountains snow caps were to melt too quickly or disappear altogether in the near future. Would the Asian masses need to migrate to the tropical areas? And all their huge new dams would all be empty? Could the greatest Asian minds be wrong?

How do the gobal warning 'experts' explain the previous Ice Age and Tropical cycles before **** Sapiens arrived in their billions in recent history? Im sure the dinasours where not using fossil fuels to keep warm then? How do these experts know if the blizzards at the polar caps where worse in previous ice ages? Where they there then or are the few years of chatting about the theories at university made them more expert than the Exkimos?
 
   / Global Warming? #1,343  
GILLYS CHILLI FARM AUSTRA said:
I'm in Melbourne outer eastern metropolitan area in Australia now and its rather cold and wet, so if the planet is warming can you please send some of it to us so we can reduce using gas and electricity to keep us citizens in reasonable comfort.

Our Australian Labor Party in coalition with the minority Greens Party have in their infinite wisdom introduced a CARBON TAX in their belief that we will change our behaviour and use less fossil fuels by increasing the prices.

Dirty industries such as electricity generated with coal fired power stations are going to have to increase their prices of electricity to cover the extra $23 per tonne of carbon tax.... so i guess some of the poorer people will switch to using wood fired heating systems which tend to generate extra smoke, but the weathy will continue to use as before and the middle classes will try and reduce heating their larger homes by closing off some rooms but then decide that they can cut out other expenditure to cover their basic primary need for warmth and food. Prices will go up and consumers might vote the current political members out of office at the next elections.

I'm thinking the best way to try keep Australia in a pristine carbon free zone is to export all our 24 Million people including natives to China or the USA if you'll have us. We will need an income to pay our way and we would want to keep exporting the minerals like iron ore & coal to china where they can continue to burn fuels to make the things we need like cars and computers, Unfortunately we wont be able to control bush fires which creates carbon dioxide during bushfires, but thats ok according to the Greenies. And then we will still need to keep our little army on site to protect our minerals from being stolen by other nearby nations, but wait why would they not just move 150 Million people in anyway as we have lots of dams and other infrustructure and our houses are more than big enough to house 6 times more people. Back to square one, except the Greens wont have any power to stop 150 million new invaders and the cycle starts all over again.

My view is ...instead of introducing all these new taxes and punishing its citizens for daring to live a reasonable lifestyle and to subsidise uneconomic renewable products made from fossel fuels, why dont the many government funded R & D departments use their skills and those of the many University professors throughout the world to continue the research begun by Nicola Tesla and or also to offer TAX FREE status rewards for inventions to both individuals as well as to corporations who can develope low input high output energy systems, on their own and without government assistance or subsidies. ie Tax benefits after they are proven to work in a free market financial environment, but certainly no reward until it works.

The current methods used by various governments throughout the western communities seem designed to benefit our trading competitors and punishing all our western citizens except those companies who are peddling unproven and uneconomic renewable energies for inexperienced gullible politicians who are trying to second guess and pick winners. The reality is when governments have tried to create wealth they usually destroy it instead, especially when our manufacturing jobs are dissapearing in Australia and the USA due to excessive increases in energy and labour cost for the direct benefit of the cheaper asian situated workforces where there are no punishing taxes for CO2 emissions which incidently plants use to convert to OXYGEN.

Why dont farmers and forestry owners earn cash for oxygen they create on there farms?..

Now can I take this opportunity to suggest a total re-definition of the meaning of true work......a farmer or a factory worker is a real worker, but a government "worker" sitting in an office writing up reports and collecting taxes is hardly a worker IMHO. Anyone have any opinions on this topic and my other comments above?

It's nice to see that the Aussies are so progressive. I'm glad that you are looking after your environment. Something to be very proud of. Fortunately once a tax is put in place it almost never goes away so changing politicians shouldn't mean much.
 
   / Global Warming? #1,344  
Rob-D said:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/process/pubs/pq_inductn_melting_tc114625.pdf

Induction Furnace: Inductotherm

Inductotherm's induction melting furnaces and charging systems are ideal for alloy critical casting operations, such as the manufacturing of aluminum wheels, where inductive stirring provides a high level of alloy and temperature homogeneity. Inductotherm also manufactures the patented Acutrak's DEH Crucible Furnace. This unique aluminum melting and holding induction furnace uses an air-cooled, direct electric heating system that is more efficient, environmentally friendly and assures more accurate temperature control of molten metal.

Why alternatives of course, they are available to everyone!

US Coal Subsidy $345 billion: Harvard Study Commercial Climate

Through incorporating externalities into their lifecycle analysis, Harvard researchers have discovered the true extent of subsidies to coal in the United States: $345 billion.

Nuclear Power Subsidies Will Shift Financial Risks to Taxpayers (2010) | Union of Concerned Scientists

Nuclear Power Subsidies Will Shift Financial Risks to Taxpayers

Nuclear Subsidies in the American Power Act (APA) and the American Clean Energy Leadership Act (ACELA)

Rob

All lies. Crash235 is obviously right. Everyone can see that coal generated electricity is different than the wind generated variety. You only need to do is look at the power lines to see when the electricity generated by coal is being conducted and how strong it is. The wind generated electricity is weak and flaccid and your power lines hang limply like Rush Limbaugh.
 
   / Global Warming? #1,345  
Or maybe they will stay right in office.

Higher cigarette taxes don't deter all smokers, study finds; Smokers aged 25 to 44 most unresponsive to price increases

Higher Cigarette Taxes Don't Deter All Smokers, Study Finds; Smokers Aged 25 to 44 Most Unresponsive to Price Increases


ScienceDaily (July 13, 2011) Raising taxes on cigarettes, a public health measure used by governments to encourage people to quit, doesn't motivate all smokers to stop the deadly habit.



Rob

We will just have to wait and see Rob. It is in Australia, and I don't have a good feel for it.
 
   / Global Warming? #1,346  
I'd suggest that both the major countries like India & China have the most to lose if their smartest scientists are totally wrong and the Himalayan Mountains snow caps were to melt too quickly or disappear altogether in the near future. Would the Asian masses need to migrate to the tropical areas? And all their huge new dams would all be empty? Could the greatest Asian minds be wrong?

How do the gobal warning 'experts' explain the previous Ice Age and Tropical cycles before **** Sapiens arrived in their billions in recent history? Im sure the dinasours where not using fossil fuels to keep warm then? How do these experts know if the blizzards at the polar caps where worse in previous ice ages? Where they there then or are the few years of chatting about the theories at university made them more expert than the Exkimos?

You think they are smart? I think they are as stupid as us, if not more so. I guess, just like here greed trumps intelligence!

The thing you should be asking the Asians about is pollution. They are finding out the hard way that regardless whether GW exists or not the pollution they are creating is reducing thier productiveness.

China's 'cancer villages' reveal dark side of economic boom | Environment | The Guardian

Nationwide, cancer rates have surged since the 1990s to become the nation's biggest killer. In 2007, the disease was responsible for one in five deaths, up 80% since the start of economic reforms 30 years earlier.

Rob
 
   / Global Warming? #1,347  
If you want me to respond to your other statement please use correct quoting procedures.
Thanks.

Rob

You get dumber by the day & post. You Can't respond because I used the wrong quoting procedures.

Need some lesson's ?????
 
   / Global Warming? #1,348  
You get dumber by the day & post. You Can't respond because I used the wrong quoting procedures.

Need some lesson's ?????

I'm not going to spend the time to extract my comments from yours in your responses. There are formatting standards and while I'm willing to respond to single or even double comments not using standard formats I'm not going through a long response that doesn't follow that protocol.

I'm glad you think I'm dumb, I'll think about that while you're out chopping wood to heat your house when I flip a switch to heat mine, actually I won't have to flip any switches, I have circuits in place that monitor those things and regulate my house automatically. Boy am I dumb!

Rob
 
   / Global Warming? #1,349  
Rob-D said:
I'm not going to spend the time to extract my comments from yours in your responses. There are formatting standards and while I'm willing to respond to single or even double comments not using standard formats I'm not going through a long response that doesn't follow that protocol.

I'm glad you think I'm dumb, I'll think about that while you're out chopping wood to heat your house when I flip a switch to heat mine, actually I won't have to flip any switches, I have circuits in place that monitor those things and regulate my house automatically. Boy am I dumb!

Rob

Rob, all Crash235 has is name calling. Ignore it.
 
   / Global Warming? #1,350  
Dustier said: Developed countries are under siege by the US government to refrain from alternative fuel vehicles, although, Brazil has gone a remarkable long way in going green.

EE_Bota said: The bold part seems odd to me. Why would President Obama allow that?

The short answer is that Obama is just maintaining the status quo. It's what is popularly refered to as "Our national security interests", but it's all about US corporate greed. After all, you don't really believe US embassies exist for diplomacy?

What's obvious in the new world order, as expressed by GHWB, is that not only are corporations buying political favor, but politicians themselves are representing corporations. The interests of "people" are distant secondary considerations to corporate profit.
 
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