Global Warming?

[toppop52]

You can't make the issue of human assisted/accelerated climate change go away by calling anyone names however much you might like scoring points on someone to impress your cohorts.

True, because you can't make something disappear if it doesn't exist in the first place. I will admit yours is among the better, more well written smoke screen to validate a Liberal theory and tasteful insults of someone in disagreement in the thread so far. Congratulations!

Gee, it seems we can discuss this without blatant screaming insults, just the subliminal seems to work fine.

 

[Egon]

Pat (Note: This post was entirely prepared without the use of an i-Anything)

Hmmm?

 

[toppop52]

Pat (Note: This post was entirely prepared without the use of an i-Anything)

Hmmm?

Yeah, my iPhone and iPad were insulted by that callous statement! :laughing:

 

[EE_Bota]

Win win in what time frame?

Let the utility and the customer decide how to structure it. Avoid subsidies altogether including subsidies to competing technologies.

Many folks erroneously think that doing the best they can every day is the best they can do but often that is short sighted and the best they could do over a longer period might very well deviate from the best over any particularly short period. Similarly subsidies, even partially sourced from the taxes of say the lower half of the population, may well contribute to an investment that over a longer period may result in more for less to that lower half. To not make the appropriate up front payment to ensure greater reward on the backside is short sided ignorance.

Not me, I am aware of long term. But even if I weren't that doesn't mean I want others leading me around by the nose. Ignorance of the people's individual budgetary challenges is a form of ignorance too. It matters more when the government is getting activist with the peoples tax revenue. At that point, folks should just start telling subsidy folks to bugger off. Many promoting the subsidies route are the same who tell us how poor half the country is, and that they can't pay income tax. But they usually don't like to talk about our national debt, our budget imbalance, and our long term unfunded liabilities before they sign the folks up to more debt. So, I don't think they are smart enough to do the right thing, or honest enough either.

What is more important, the long game or the lowest taxes, one year at a time?

The lower our percentage tax is, the more sustainable our government becomes. Look at the last few decades, and you can see the long game. Unless you are talking about the future long game where we do more of the same, but expect it to be different next time.

I think the financial sustainability or our government looks like it is in doubt because we are amassing huge present and future liabilities. Instead of heading toward agreement with a person like me by suggesting that we should handle those debts, you are holding open the door for more subsidies. I am generally opposed.

Once upon a time a long time ago in a metropolis far far away (San Diego 1984-85 as energy conservation officer for SUBASE San Diego) I found that by spending $ on energy conservative projects early in the fiscal year I could reduce utility bills sufficiently that the $ spent were recouped in lowered utility bills before I ran out of $ due to raiding the funds set aside for paying the bloated bills to instead invest in energy conservation. Note I said INVEST. Some energy conservation measures are investment opportunities and will have sufficient pay back to pay for themselves and produce a return on investment. No voodoo economics here. I used net present value calcs and reasonable values for the cost of money in identifying investment opportunities and their payback times.

Sounds neat. Working in the private sector without benefit of government funding, we had to pick up on those single year payback things long ago, or be unemployed. Our business can't tax directly or indirectly thought the stealth of money printing...a flaw in our master plan. But it forced us to be tough and competitive, and keeps us from resting on our laurels.

I don't give blanket approval to subsidies as they are all too often abused and misused but... some subsidies can be THE RIGHT THING if it gets a needed supplier of goods and or services jump started or gets a useful industry out of the prototype stage and into meaningful production.

It is Governments duty to do the right thing by its citizens and sometimes that is to reward what you want to grow in excess of the enterprises current contribution to ensure future availability of their goods and services.

You mentioned doing the "right thing" twice. Many of the worst dictators in the world fancied themselves great central planners. I suppose we could be fortunate enough to have less dictatorial central planners in the AGW regime, but I am skeptical. It's always going to be different this time.

The government is not the only way to fund something. If you won't put your cash behind it, and I won't, that doesn't mean we make everyone do it by force. You can try, and I can oppose.

You can't make the issue of human assisted/accelerated climate change go away by calling anyone names however much you might like scoring points on someone to impress your cohorts.

I never said I could. Were I to try, I'd go the snarkey and condescending route that is making you guys so successful at changing the hearts and minds here and across the country.

 

[GILLYS CHILLI FARM AUSTRA]

BBC News - Australia Climate Commission says warming risk is real
23 May 2011 Last updated at 00:21 ET Share this pageEmail Print Share this page

ShareFacebookTwitter.Australia Climate Commission says warming risk is real Australia is one of the highest per capita carbon emitters in the world Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Australian Greens' high hopes for polls
Australia shelves climate scheme
Climate deal fear as talks resume

The Australian Climate Commission has warned that the world's sea levels could rise by 1m by the end of the century, much more than thought.

In its first report, the commission says the evidence that the planet is warming is stronger than ever.

It said that climate science was being attacked in the media by people with no credentials in the field.

Australian climate change scientists receive death threats as debate heats up - Telegraph
Loren[/QUOTE

Its official our current Government party Australian Labor Party have declared the Greens Party as an extemist leftist loopy organisation, yet they were able to form a government by going into coalition with the Greens Party a couple of years ago because the Greens have a minority number of Senate Seats just enough to be able to control parliament.

The Greens have been very clever in playing with statistics and indroctinating the school children with the help of the ALP to make them believe the end of the world is near and pick up about 12% of the disaffected voters along the way...enough to give them Senate Seats.

Now if one considers that the Australian continent has been around for several billion years and at least 40,000 years of modern history with only about 224 years of recorded climate history in a very dry continent meaning that about .005% of the total history of 40,000 years.....one would never know how many droughts lasting several hundred or thousand years would have hit our continent...and if one considers that the population of natives did not number 200 Million or more as was the Chinese population 224 years ago[anyone know please advise] the lack of water and food kept the population of natives low when Captain Cokk arrived in 1788. Now can any scientist claim to be more learned than anyone else to come up with their Greens backed claims that the earth is warming due to people in Australia emitting too much greenhouse gases? It beggers belief that so many of our young believe the Greens leftist propaganda. Scientists will also tell you that they find sandstone, mustone and seashells in the desert indicating the seas once had rising to cover our Australian continent several billion years ago before the arrival of the Monkeys, yet we now have a Carbon Tax in this country to discourage human created emissions which will cause our seas to rise by 1 metre ......THIS WILL ONLY RESULT IN LESS JOBS IN COAL MINING, LESS JOBS IN COAL FIRED POWER STATIONS AND THE LIST GOES ON... more jobs for Asian manufactuers....thats what the Greens Party are doing to our Australian manufacturing industry based on a minor percentage of weather statistics.....

But i have a solution to reduce green house emissions in Australia to just bushfire related carbon creation....easy...just give all 24 million a one way ticket to China.or to USA. if you want us...but the Greens Party members should be sent to China or Russia to try their hand at telling President Putin what he should do...lol ...

Its total madness, but these learned leftist Greens backed scientist cant be sent back to earth history school....because they know everything...BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

[toppop52]

BBC News - Australia Climate Commission says warming risk is real
23 May 2011 Last updated at 00:21 ET Share this pageEmail Print Share this page

ShareFacebookTwitter.Australia Climate Commission says warming risk is real Australia is one of the highest per capita carbon emitters in the world Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Australian Greens' high hopes for polls
Australia shelves climate scheme
Climate deal fear as talks resume

The Australian Climate Commission has warned that the world's sea levels could rise by 1m by the end of the century, much more than thought.

In its first report, the commission says the evidence that the planet is warming is stronger than ever.

It said that climate science was being attacked in the media by people with no credentials in the field.

Australian climate change scientists receive death threats as debate heats up - Telegraph
Loren[/QUOTE

Its official our current Government party Australian Labor Party have declared the Greens Party as an extemist leftist loopy organisation, yet they were able to form a government by going into coalition with the Greens Party a couple of years ago because the Greens have a minority number of Senate Seats just enough to be able to control parliament.

The Greens have been very clever in playing with statistics and indroctinating the school children with the help of the ALP to make them believe the end of the world is near and pick up about 12% of the disaffected voters along the way...enough to give them Senate Seats.

Now if one considers that the Australian continent has been around for several billion years and at least 40,000 years of modern history with only about 224 years of recorded climate history in a very dry continent meaning that about .005% of the total history of 40,000 years.....one would never know how many droughts lasting several hundred or thousand years would have hit our continent...and if one considers that the population of natives did not number 200 Million or more as was the Chinese population 224 years ago[anyone know please advise] the lack of water and food kept the population of natives low when Captain Cokk arrived in 1788. Now can any scientist claim to be more learned than anyone else to come up with their Greens backed claims that the earth is warming due to people in Australia emitting too much greenhouse gases? It beggers belief that so many of our young believe the Greens leftist propaganda. Scientists will also tell you that they find sandstone, mustone and seashells in the desert indicating the seas once had rising to cover our Australian continent several billion years ago before the arrival of the Monkeys, yet we now have a Carbon Tax in this country to discourage human created emissions which will cause our seas to rise by 1 metre ......THIS WILL ONLY RESULT IN LESS JOBS IN COAL MINING, LESS JOBS IN COAL FIRED POWER STATIONS AND THE LIST GOES ON... more jobs for Asian manufactuers....thats what the Greens Party are doing to our Australian manufacturing industry based on a minor percentage of weather statistics.....

But i have a solution to reduce green house emissions in Australia to just bushfire related carbon creation....easy...just give all 24 million a one way ticket to China.or to USA. if you want us...but the Greens Party members should be sent to China or Russia to try their hand at telling President Putin what he should do...lol ...

Its total madness, but these learned leftist Greens backed scientist cant be sent back to earth history school....because they know everything...BLAH BLAH BLAH

You see the problem we have, a small minority of radicals driving the climate debate because they have the ear of the leftist radicals in government.

 

[GILLYS CHILLI FARM AUSTRA]

You see the problem we have, a small minority of radicals driving the climate debate because they have the ear of the leftist radicals in government.

You said it Toppop52, exactly. The leftist in our major partys in both our countries are the ones who are ceeding and giving power to this incideous minority extremist party, because they have been messmerised/hoodwinked into believing they will pick up favour from a few more extra voters when in fact they end up losing many more than the zero they collect.The reliality is that either of the main political parties cannot be all things to all people but they show weekness when they help the Greenies gain a foothold in the ir space. Good strong leaders DO NOT permit their members to ceed power to minority Greens.

 

[Egon]

Yeah, my iPhone and iPad were insulted by that callous statement! :laughing:

Golly; here "I" thought that the "I- anything" meant it was a pure post without the benefit of Pat's input!:thumbsup:

 

[newbury]

You essentially just called me "wrong" and then admitted that the individuals wanted for themselves exactly what I said they did, and then you slipped into an anti-business wrong-doing rant that is tantamount to using ****** and Stalin to condemn the concept of government.

Summary:
Wrong---change subject---rant.

You used the term "Everyone". I'm attempting to point out that although many agree with your writing the heads of corporations may see it affecting their bottom line.
I'm not "ANTI-BUSINESS" but I have been around long enough to see a lot of wrong done in the name of "business".

 

[EE_Bota]

You used the term "Everyone". I'm attempting to point out that although many agree with your writing the heads of corporations may see it affecting their bottom line.
I'm not "ANTI-BUSINESS" but I have been around long enough to see a lot of wrong done in the name of "business".

Fair enough, Newbury. I don't know which of us is older, you or me, but I have seen wrongdoing in the name of nearly everything, so I can't assign that to entire classes, or systems, since no class or system seems to be immune.