Buying Advice Right CUT for 10 acres

[jenkinsph]

Morroder,
My thought is both of these tractors are too small for moving large bales in inclement weather. I would recommend you get something with larger wheels and tires. I would not buy a new tractor that has to struggle in any way moving these bales because in bad weather the task become much more difficult. Animals have to be fed regardless of the weather conditions so a small tractor stuck in mud should be avoided. In nice weather the smaller tractors and their optimum specifications would appear to be plenty for your tasks, problem is nothing ever works out that way.

I see on Tractordata that the 3PH on the 3016 is rated for more than the base tractor weight, I am having a hard time visualizing how that would work.

 

[madmax12]

Morroder,
My thought is both of these tractors are too small for moving large bales in inclement weather. I would recommend you get something with larger wheels and tires. I would not buy a new tractor that has to struggle in any way moving these bales because in bad weather the task become much more difficult. Animals have to be fed regardless of the weather conditions so a small tractor stuck in mud should be avoided. In nice weather the smaller tractors and their optimum specifications would appear to be plenty for your tasks, problem is nothing ever works out that way.

I see on Tractordata that the 3PH on the 3016 is rated for more than the base tractor weight, I am having a hard time visualizing how that would work.

I learned a few things from this post. One is, a hobby farm is different from other hobbies... In that you have to work it everyday, all year, no matter what. Wow! I never thought about that, living in suburbia and working a "regular" job.

Two, one of the reasons I bought, instead of rent, was so that I could choose when to use the tractor (ie: while I plan to use it for snow plowing, I prob won't use it in the rain) ... On a farm, that may not be an option.

And three, lots of people don't like mahindra math. But I do.

 

[Martian]

And three, lots of people don't like mahindra math. But I do.

Although it can technically lift that amount, in real world scenario's it never will be able to practically do it. Any manufacturer can change the hydraulic settings to increase specs, but they know it's not practical and customers will never be able to take full advantage of it. Take what you see on a spec sheet with a grain of salt, although it says it can lift more than it's weight, actually doing it and working the tractor won't be very likely to happen.

 

[madmax12]

Although it can technically lift that amount, in real world scenario's it never will be able to practically do it. Any manufacturer can change the hydraulic settings to increase specs, but they know it's not practical and customers will never be able to take full advantage of it. Take what you see on a spec sheet with a grain of salt, although it says it can lift more than it's weight, actually doing it and working the tractor won't be very likely to happen.

For all the negative feedback so many others and Don87 (Massey owner) throw around about mahindra specs, I find the specs for the Massey 1529 interesting...

Loader lift is just under 1300 (Max 28 = 1400)
Rear lift is 2425 (Max28 = 2205)
Weight 2557 (Max 28 = 1819)
Length, with front weights? 120 (Max 28 = 110)
Width 52.6 (Max 28 = 54.3)

Note: since they count the front weights as part of the length... are they included as part of the tractor weight? Is it a lighter tractor than 2557 without the front weights?

Are the specs so far off for mahindra from Massey? They seem pretty close to me. The mahindra is slightly wider... safer stability?

It is so odd, to me, to hear this mantra of specs don't really mean anything.

If the specs are the outside capability, why are there so many kubota threads seeking ways to go far over factory specs for their tractors? If it is unsafe to even consider lifting up to specs... why are so many seeking to go so far beyond their specs?

This spec issue has nothing to do with mahindra. It has everything to do with mahindra being far more powerful than other brands (But, Massey is right there with them). So much so, that the other brands won't even include mahindra in their comparison specs as competition.

The other brands claim to be superior, but then avoid comparing themselves to any real competition. John deere even does this against Kubota, with the one series. They compare to the older Kubota BX 24. Any true attempt at a comparison, would have used the BX 25. You can't build a BX24 on the Kubota website, because it is NOT a current model. So why would Deere compare their new model to an outdated Kubota model??? The videos of this charade are on YouTube. The irony is that the charade is all about how Deere's specs are superior to kubota's.

If Kubota and John Deere owners bought massey or mahindra... they could work, and not spend time trying to make their tractors as strong as Massey and Mahindra. :shocked:

The very idea that specs don't mean anything, but oh man... you gotta have green or orange paint....

Odd.

Here is a video of the Max 25 (a little brother to the Max28XL) lifting to capacity, at full height, and then curling to full capacity (breakout force) from there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqmmfYgTFlU

The reason Daves Tractor made the video, was to respond to another member in another thread about a month ago.

 

[Martian]

Madmax12,

You took what I said way out of proportion. If you recall correctly, in those 'threads' I was one of Mahindra's biggest supporters with their Max series.

You seem like a book guy to me, there's no problem with that! I can just tell you that no matter what the book says, or the specs say, real world performance will differ. I will tell you that I would NEVER consider putting something on the 3ph that weighs more than my tractor. That is just asking for an accident and possibly breaking something on your tractor. A book can never cover every real world scenario and that's where the bigger companies shine in my opinion. They have more experience with what works and what doesn't. They put more effort into the little things that nobody knows about or cares about but make difference in real world performance. The bigger companies are also MUCH more liberal in their ratings, a company like Mahindra can much more easily get away with having their specs right on the edge.

The JD comparison videos to the BX on youtube are to the most recent BXxx60 series. They do mention specs, but most of the videos detail how there is better ergonomics, more operator comfort, easier attachment removal and overall better experience.

The reason that they don't compare Mahindra, is that they are a 2nd tier machine. They aren't as big as Deere, Kubota, Massey, New Holland and Case. There's nothing wrong with that, they just don't feel the need to compare the smaller companies.

I think you have drank a little to much of the Mahindra juice. It's alright to be proud, but no reason to try and throw us under the bus. I have been extremely happy with my Deere machines. If it was for a fact that Mahindra way outworked and was much more powerful than the bigger companies, than they would be the bigger company, but they aren't.

 

[madmax12]

Madmax12,

You took what I said way out of proportion. If you recall correctly, in those 'threads' I was one of Mahindra's biggest supporters with their Max series.

You seem like a book guy to me, there's no problem with that! I can just tell you that no matter what the book says, or the specs say, real world performance will differ. I will tell you that I would NEVER consider putting something on the 3ph that weighs more than my tractor. That is just asking for an accident and possibly breaking something on your tractor. A book can never cover every real world scenario and that's where the bigger companies shine in my opinion. They have more experience with what works and what doesn't. They put more effort into the little things that nobody knows about or cares about but make difference in real world performance. The bigger companies are also MUCH more liberal in their ratings, a company like Mahindra can much more easily get away with having their specs right on the edge.

The JD comparison videos to the BX on youtube are to the most recent BXxx60 series. They do mention specs, but most of the videos detail how there is better ergonomics, more operator comfort, easier attachment removal and overall better experience.

The reason that they don't compare Mahindra, is that they are a 2nd tier machine. They aren't as big as Deere, Kubota, Massey, New Holland and Case. There's nothing wrong with that, they just don't feel the need to compare the smaller companies.

I think you have drank a little to much of the Mahindra juice. It's alright to be proud, but no reason to try and throw us under the bus. I have been extremely happy with my Deere machines. If it was for a fact that Mahindra way outworked and was much more powerful than the bigger companies, than they would be the bigger company, but they aren't.

I'm not angry. Just befuddled. And amused. I apologize for sounding (being?) rude, though I would like a little freedom to be sarcastic... just not overly, I guess.

Your point is true. "I can just tell you that no matter what the book says, or the specs say, real world performance will differ. I will tell you that I would NEVER consider putting something on the 3ph that weighs more than my tractor. That is just asking for an accident and possibly breaking something on your tractor. A book can never cover every real world scenario..." That's true.

However, to dismiss Mahindra as some new, unknown, uneducated company...that just started selling tractors on the street corner... well, that is not a true representation, at all.

Compared to you, I don't know anything. I'm not being sarcastic. It's true. I'm brand new to tractors. But, I can research and evaluate. And that is why I chose Mahindra. If I had more land, and the local LS dealer was more personable (that was too kind a description, but so be it), I would have gotten the LS G3033. It was way more tractor for the money. I have recommended that over mahindra on several threads. I have recommended the BX in another thread recently, because that OP's needs were better met by the BX.

Specs. Someone is inaccurate. Mahindra believes they out sell all brands: Mahindra Tractors - Why Mahindra / History

Is Mahindra wrong? Or, are they not second tier, as you put it.

They also claim to have the highest owner satisfaction.

I think all brands are great. What I find odd, is that the thought/idea/claim that the other brands specs are underestimated, but Mahindra's are impossible/unsafe/not practical.

I'm not so much touting/defending mahindra, as I am pointing out the double standard in the perspective regarding specs.

For example, LS is "new." So, there are threads/comments indicating a skeptical "fear" of the LS brand. BUT... if you go buy the New Holland... it IS the LS... with New Holland stickers. So... is New Holland "safe"/well known/a more seasoned brand than LS? They are the SAME (certain models).

I have to go out of my way to get to the Mahindra dealer. But, I could walk to the Bobcat dealer. I have Deere dealers all over the place. And New Holland real close too.

I won't "push" mahindra. But, the spec misperception on strength, sales, etc... I just find it strange.

Watching the Deere vs BX videos shows that John Deere paints the competition in an overly negative light, and themselves in the best possible way. If Deere could make the higher specs happen, they would post them. They can't. Has nothing to do with being more safe/mature IMO. Nor are Deere or Kubota any more reliable... this forum full of troubles and woes shows that all brands have issues. Even brand new Mahindras, with 10 hours on them...:thumbdown:

You are right that I'm proud of my tractor. It is wicked cool! And your tractors and your experience...you are, and should be proud, as well.

However, I disagree with the drinking the Mahindra koolaid idea. I believe the wrestling over specs, throughout the forum, is a distortion of the truth. I'm arguing against that.

I didn't get the Max Backhoe. But, if I did, I would not be able to brag how strong it is. The B series Kubota had it beat. Actually, I think last years Mahindra backhoe had it beat, too... Other brands, also, I think, but I didn't continue that research... as I decided to hold off on that purchase.

This newbie isn't mahindra brainwashed. I have NO experience (well, 2 months:thumbsup:)... but I do defend what I think is True.

 

[jenkinsph]

I'm not angry. Just befuddled. And amused. I apologize for sounding (being?) rude, though I would like a little freedom to be sarcastic... just not overly, I guess.

Your point is true. "I can just tell you that no matter what the book says, or the specs say, real world performance will differ. I will tell you that I would NEVER consider putting something on the 3ph that weighs more than my tractor. That is just asking for an accident and possibly breaking something on your tractor. A book can never cover every real world scenario..." That's true.

However, to dismiss Mahindra as some new, unknown, uneducated company...that just started selling tractors on the street corner... well, that is not a true representation, at all.

Compared to you, I don't know anything. I'm not being sarcastic. It's true. I'm brand new to tractors. But, I can research and evaluate. And that is why I chose Mahindra. If I had more land, and the local LS dealer was more personable (that was too kind a description, but so be it), I would have gotten the LS G3033. It was way more tractor for the money. I have recommended that over mahindra on several threads. I have recommended the BX in another thread recently, because that OP's needs were better met by the BX.

Specs. Someone is inaccurate. Mahindra believes they out sell all brands: Mahindra Tractors - Why Mahindra / History

Is Mahindra wrong? Or, are they not second tier, as you put it.

They also claim to have the highest owner satisfaction.

I think all brands are great. What I find odd, is that the thought/idea/claim that the other brands specs are underestimated, but Mahindra's are impossible/unsafe/not practical.

I'm not so much touting/defending mahindra, as I am pointing out the double standard in the perspective regarding specs.

For example, LS is "new." So, there are threads/comments indicating a skeptical "fear" of the LS brand. BUT... if you go buy the New Holland... it IS the LS... with New Holland stickers. So... is New Holland "safe"/well known/a more seasoned brand than LS? They are the SAME (certain models).

I have to go out of my way to get to the Mahindra dealer. But, I could walk to the Bobcat dealer. I have Deere dealers all over the place. And New Holland real close too.

I won't "push" mahindra. But, the spec misperception on strength, sales, etc... I just find it strange.

Watching the Deere vs BX videos shows that John Deere paints the competition in an overly negative light, and themselves in the best possible way. If Deere could make the higher specs happen, they would post them. They can't. Has nothing to do with being more safe/mature IMO. Nor are Deere or Kubota any more reliable... this forum full of troubles and woes shows that all brands have issues. Even brand new Mahindras, with 10 hours on them...:thumbdown:

You are right that I'm proud of my tractor. It is wicked cool! And your tractors and your experience...you are, and should be proud, as well.

However, I disagree with the drinking the Mahindra koolaid idea. I believe the wrestling over specs, throughout the forum, is a distortion of the truth. I'm arguing against that.

I didn't get the Max Backhoe. But, if I did, I would not be able to brag how strong it is. The B series Kubota had it beat. Other brands, also, I think, but I didn't continue that research... as I decided to hold off on that purchase.

This newbie isn't mahindra brainwashed. I have NO experience (well, 2 months:thumbsup:)... but I do defend what I think is True.

What I have found in my experience is most tractors can handle a rear implement that is roughly 20 to 25% of the tractors weight. Most tractors can pick up more weight but have a hard time working with it. Don't think brand has anything to do with it, just the physics of managing the load. Increasing the bore of the rockshaft cylinders will increase the lifting force but does nothing to help manage and control the tractor.

Next year I will have 50 years experience with operating tractors, while not full time I can say I have learned a thing or two about them. I have tried to learn from my many past mistakes and overloading machinery leads to accidents as well as machinery damage.

The Mahindra Max 28 looks like a nice tractor but I wouldn't attempt to hang a 1400lb implement on the back of it regardless of what the spec's say. More appropriate would be 500 to 700 lb implements.

 

[Martian]

Madmax,

I'm referring to the US market ONLY. Mahindra is a new competitor in the US market, and still considered a second tier brand. This has nothing to do with the reliability, dependability or strength of the tractor, only to say that they don't have a big of a market share in the US. It is true that Mahindra sells more tractors (in their class, not overall) than any other tractor manufacturer, most of these sales are to India. If I had a better local Mahindra dealer, they would be in strong consideration for me, unfortunately there is not.

As far as the product videos go, if you look at any product video comparing one brand of anything to another, they will bash it in a way to make their product seem better. If they didn't point out the faults and overcomings, then the video would be useless. You just have to realize the source of the video and get both takes on the situation. I do enjoy the videos though and enjoy watching the different takes from all brands.

As Jenkinsph has already mentioned, it's not the fact that it can lift that much, but what is practical. I could rig up a 7000 series Deere loader to work on a 1026r and would have 12,000 pounds of FEL lift capacity, but I think we all know that won't work too well. Your Max may be able to lift 1400 pounds in the rear, but it won't be able to do much else. The tractor will severely bog down and performance will suffer. So whether it can, or should is the question. As mentioned, a 700lb implement is all it will really want to handle, so the specs saying 1400lbs doesn't reflect the real world.

 

[madmax12]

What I have found in my experience is most tractors can handle a rear implement that is roughly 20 to 25% of the tractors weight. Most tractors can pick up more weight but have a hard time working with it. Don't think brand has anything to do with it, just the physics of managing the load. Increasing the bore of the rockshaft cylinders will increase the lifting force but does nothing to help manage and control the tractor.

Next year I will have 50 years experience with operating tractors, while not full time I can say I have learned a thing or two about them. I have tried to learn from my many past mistakes and overloading machinery leads to accidents as well as machinery damage.

The Mahindra Max 28 looks like a nice tractor but I wouldn't attempt to hang a 1400lb implement on the back of it regardless of what the spec's say. More appropriate would be 500 to 700 lb implements.

Your post put Martian's 10:46am post in its proper context for me. What you are saying, is what he was saying. Your concern is not brand bashing... but rather my safety. And the safety of others.

Martian is right. I did misunderstand him.

I have a lot to learn. This is true. I appreciate your interest in my safety.

Thanks to both of you.

 

[jenkinsph]

Your post put Martian's 10:46am post in its proper context for me. What you are saying, is what he was saying. Your concern is not brand bashing... but rather my safety. And the safety of others.

Martian is right. I did misunderstand him.

I have a lot to learn. This is true. I appreciate your interest in my safety.

Thanks to both of you.

You're Welcome, just remember you read all of this on the internet.