Hypothetical Doomsday Scenario

[John47]

Over 25 years back we were discussing this during a lunchbreak, one of my co workers was an Ex Royal Australian Navy electronics specialist, missiles etc.
He related to us of when he was on training manoeuvrings with the US Navy in the Pacific. It was just a theory back then EMP's and what they could do.
A nuclear device, small by todays standards was detonated high in the atmosphere, and the two navy's were to observe and record anything unusual.
He said yeah, unusual was the word, "we were dead in the water" Anything with solid state circuitry was fried big time, all old tube gear with no solid state devices still worked perfectly, same with US Navy.
Can't recall if he gave the year so cannot say if it was the time a good part of the big island of Hawaii lost all power. I think his test was prior to that incident.
Regarding solar/ earth geomagnetic storms, there has been a couple of X5 class flares that have caused damage during the last solar cycle, one cause serious damage to part of the Canadian grid.
NASA has predicted we are due for a large X5 class plus flare anytime now.
From what I'm led to believe, if our two deep space solar watch satellites send warnings of such a storm, all power companies will be told to shut the grid down and shut power generating plants down for safety.
Problem is, telecommunications will be taken out, no cell phones, no telephones, television stations and radio stations equipment fried, plus virtually every vehicle, from cars to big rigs that have masses of electronics on board will die on the roads..
So we will be in rather a mess, or as my old man used to say, up the creek without a paddle.

It is widely suspected that the US, Russia and China also have what are called EMP weapons..No not nuclear devices, but high power electronic units they have installed in aircraft or missiles.
The US military were suspected of testing such devices years back, if we have them, both the Russians and Chinese could well have them.

 

[wrooster]

Problem is, telecommunications will be taken out, no cell phones, no telephones, television stations and radio stations equipment fried, plus virtually every vehicle, from cars to big rigs that have masses of electronics on board will die on the roads.

No.

Wrooster <-- MSEE and telecom equipment designer

 

[Soundguy]

break out the farady cage and hardened systems..

 

[Gator6x4]

Over 25 years back we were discussing this during a lunchbreak, one of my co workers was an Ex Royal Australian Navy electronics specialist, missiles etc.
He related to us of when he was on training manoeuvrings with the US Navy in the Pacific. It was just a theory back then EMP's and what they could do.
A nuclear device, small by todays standards was detonated high in the atmosphere, and the two navy's were to observe and record anything unusual.
He said yeah, unusual was the word, "we were dead in the water" Anything with solid state circuitry was fried big time, all old tube gear with no solid state devices still worked perfectly, same with US Navy.
Can't recall if he gave the year so cannot say if it was the time a good part of the big island of Hawaii lost all power. I think his test was prior to that incident.
Regarding solar/ earth geomagnetic storms, there has been a couple of X5 class flares that have caused damage during the last solar cycle, one cause serious damage to part of the Canadian grid.
NASA has predicted we are due for a large X5 class plus flare anytime now.
From what I'm led to believe, if our two deep space solar watch satellites send warnings of such a storm, all power companies will be told to shut the grid down and shut power generating plants down for safety.
Problem is, telecommunications will be taken out, no cell phones, no telephones, television stations and radio stations equipment fried, plus virtually every vehicle, from cars to big rigs that have masses of electronics on board will die on the roads..
So we will be in rather a mess, or as my old man used to say, up the creek without a paddle.

It is widely suspected that the US, Russia and China also have what are called EMP weapons..No not nuclear devices, but high power electronic units they have installed in aircraft or missiles.
The US military were suspected of testing such devices years back, if we have them, both the Russians and Chinese could well have them.

Oh yes, the night the US turned off the lights and telephones in Hawaii.

On July 9, 1962, at 09:00:09 Coordinated Universal Time (which was July 8, Honolulu time, at nine seconds after 11 p.m.), the Starfish Prime test was successfully detonated at an altitude of 400 kilometers (250 mi). The coordinates of the detonation were 16 degrees, 28 minutes North latitude, 169 degrees, 38 minutes West longitude. The actual weapon yield was very close to the design yield, which has been described by various sources at different values in the range of 1.4 to 1.45 megatons (6.0 PJ).

The Thor missile carrying the Starfish Prime warhead reached a maximum height of about 1100 km (just over 680 miles), and the warhead was detonated on its downward trajectory when it had fallen to the programmed altitude of 400 kilometers (250 mi). The nuclear warhead detonated at 13 minutes and 41 seconds after liftoff of the Thor missile from Johnston Island.

Starfish Prime caused an electromagnetic (EMP) which was far larger than expected, so much larger that it drove much of the instrumentation off scale, causing great difficulty in getting accurate measurements. The Starfish Prime electromagnetic pulse also made those effects known to the public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link. The EMP damage to the microwave link shut down telephone calls from Kauai to the other Hawaiian Islands.

Pages 19–21 of "A 'Quick Look' at the Technical Results of Starfish Prime", August 1962 states:

"At Kwajalein, 1,400 [nautical] miles [2,600 km; 1,600 mi] to the west, a dense overcast extended the length of the eastern horizon to a height of 5 or 8 degrees. At 0900 GMT a brilliant white flash burned through the clouds rapidly changing to an expanding green ball of irradiance extending into the clear sky above the overcast. From its surface extruded great white fingers, resembling cirro-stratus clouds, which rose to 40 degrees above the horizon in sweeping arcs turning downward toward the poles and disappearing in seconds to be replaced by spectacular concentric cirrus like rings moving out from the blast at tremendous initial velocity, finally stopping when the outermost ring was 50 degrees overhead. They did not disappear but persisted in a state of frozen stillness. All this occurred, I would judge, within 45 seconds. As the greenish light turned to purple and began to fade at the point of burst, a bright red glow began to develop on the horizon at a direction 50 degrees north of east and simultaneously 50 degrees south of east expanding inward and upward until the whole eastern sky was a dull burning red semicircle 100 degrees north to south and halfway to the zenith obliterating some of the lesser stars. This condition, interspersed with tremendous white rainbows, persisted no less than seven minutes."

"At zero time at Johnston, a white flash occurred, but as soon as one could remove his goggles, no intense light was present. A second after shot time a mottled red disc was observed directly overhead and covered the sky down to about 45 degrees from the zenith. Generally, the red mottled region was more intense on the eastern portions. Along the magnetic north-south line through the burst, a white-yellow streak extended and grew to the north from near zenith. The width of the white streaked region grew from a few degrees at a few seconds to about 5-10 degrees in 30 seconds. Growth of the auroral region to the north was by addition of new lines developing from west to east. The white-yellow auroral streamers receded upward from the horizon to the north and grew to the south and at about 2 minutes the white-yellow bands were still about 10 degrees wide and extended mainly from near zenith to the south. By about two minutes, the red disc region had completed disappearance in the west and was rapidly fading on the eastern portion of the overhead disc. At 400 seconds essentially all major visible phenomena had disappeared except for possibly some faint red glow along the north-south line and on the horizon to the north. No sounds were heard at Johnston Island that could be definitely attributed to the detonation."

 

[k0ua]

And you have to remember in 1962, there were not a whole lot of solid state devices in general use by the public.. Most system were using vacuum tubes.. Of course there would have been perhaps some solid state gear in use by the public, but not a lot. I think the damage to the HI islands would be of a much greater magnitude if this same experiment were carried out today.

James K0UA

 

[BobRip]

And you have to remember in 1962, there were not a whole lot of solid state devices in general use by the public.. Most system were using vacuum tubes.. Of course there would have been perhaps some solid state gear in use by the public, but not a lot. I think the damage to the HI islands would be of a much greater magnitude if this same experiment were carried out today.

James K0UA

I wonder how my pacemaker would do. I think today many people would die. However solid state devices today are much better protected against static than they use to be. Is it enough? I don't know. My pacemaker will allow me to weld, and that produces a lot of pulses.

 

[k0ua]

I wonder how my pacemaker would do. I think today many people would die. However solid state devices today are much better protected against static than they use to be. Is it enough? I don't know. My pacemaker will allow me to weld, and that produces a lot of pulses.

My best "guess" (easy for me to guess about your life huh.) is that you would be OK. as you would have a pretty small antenna inside of you to develop the voltage potential. Other systems with larger antennas (like anything hooked to a power line or telephone line or metallic structure) would not fare so well, as the potential voltages would likely be higher to penetrate the PN junctions of semiconductors. If you knew it was going to happen, get in a Faraday cage.. (yeah I don't have one either) or perhaps get underground and away from any metallic conductors that perhaps could inductively couple to you. Of course we are not likely to have much if any warning from an enemy.

James K0UA

 

[BobRip]

My best "guess" (easy for me to guess about your life huh.) is that you would be OK. as you would have a pretty small antenna inside of you to develop the voltage potential. Other systems with larger antennas (like anything hooked to a power line or telephone line or metallic structure) would not fare so well, as the potential voltages would likely be higher to penetrate the PN junctions of semiconductors. If you knew it was going to happen, get in a Faraday cage.. (yeah I don't have one either) or perhaps get underground and away from any metallic conductors that perhaps could inductively couple to you. Of course we are not likely to have much if any warning from an enemy.

James K0UA

So if you had a generator sitting there and not connected to anything it might be alright.

 

[k0ua]

So if you had a generator sitting there and not connected to anything it might be alright.

My answer is I don't know..They talk about fields of up to 50,000 volts per meter. A generator is pretty big, and could have some pretty large potentials on it.. I am thinking this could be a problem.. You need Faraday shielding to protect it.

James K0UA

 

[mjarrels]

Never in a EA-6B Squadron, but a single EA-6B can do remarkable things. Classified, can't go into details.

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