Retirement savings ....Yikes !

[dave1949]

File:2008 Top1percentUSA.png - Wikimedia Commons

dave as you know MASHABLE as an agenda. If the above link is factual then we know MASHABLE was not showing integrity in that video.
http://mashable.com/about/ One might guess most of the five pictured are not farm girls and boys.

If you look at the Top1percentUSA graph then the MASHABLE video you will realize MASHABLE was by intent painting a false picture of history with the snap shot from 1976 forward.

The graph link at the top of this post you can clearly see shows the boom years starting around 1976 for many non 1%'ers occurred when the 1%'ers numbers were climbing as well.

dave do you agree based on the last 100 years of USA history for one to think there are too many at in the 1% group today may be wishing a depression up on the kids?

Wishing a depression on our kids because the wealthy aren't wealthy enough? Is that what you are asking? Or, depressions result from extreme imbalance of wealth?

There are some parallels between the 1929 Crash and the recent recession, but there are many other factors at work too that are not shared between those two events.

I really have to go to bed

 

[Redneck in training]

I travel for work to many countries. Some very poor and some very rich. My observation is that low wages (such as low minimum wage) don't stimulate productivity. In example in India people will pick grass and leaves by hand. They don't have even rakes, brooms etc. Just hand. Whole village will come to clean construction mess and earn very little. If the people would be paid more by whomever employs them they would have at least shovels and rakes and in better case some machine. Work of many will be done by fewer people being more productive. If those people would earn more they would buy more stuff that could be made by the people displaced by the shovels, rakes and/or the machine. Low wages provide work for many people but at low productivity level.
I also see that it is hard to be rich in a poor country. People have razor blade wire on top of the fence, bars in windows, guard dogs and those really wealthy have private armies. I doubt anyone would want to live in a country like that.
When I immigrated to the USA I got a minimum wage job at small company making screen printing machines. I spent about half of my income just for the bus ticket. It was not even close to a living wage. I figured that one has to start somewhere but when I found that people make $4/hour after several years of employment I figured that it was dead end job so I quit and found another temporary dead end job in a hotel laundry for the same money but only few bus stops from my place and if I worked unpaid voluntary overtime I got three meals a day. It was the best benefit. I took advantage of that pretty much every day. Anyway the low wage scared me so much that I didn't miss single day in school and graduated on top of the class. Many years later I checked in the same hotel as a guest and found some people I met still working there doing the same jobs. Amazing. If the guy I worked for my first job would have to pay more I bet he would figure out that it is cheaper to buy more productive machines.
It seems to me that poverty is a state of mind. Some people just put up with it. In the same time poverty wages don't do any good to society. In fact they are expensive. The poorer the people are and the more of them is there, the more we spend on police, security, weapons, corruption, jails, justice system, drug war, substance abuse etc. Poor people don't send kids to school so the cycle perpetuates. Some might be very bright. There is a lot of talent lost.

 

[daugen]

Redneck, I read your post twice, there was so much good stuff in it. thanks

if the original chart I posted was biased, my apologies. Frankly I checked out that website
and saw five white execs, three male and two female. None looked like they were from outer space.
But this is the risk of cut and paste, I had no way of vetting the original. Seems to be accurate, just truncated?

I look at that 1929 spike with a worry that it is skewed by the number of instant millionaires made in market rise.
And then in 1930 were left with a fraction of what they started with, if anything at all. My grandfather and his brother worked
endless days in their butter and eggs business in Newark, NJ, and then like good Americans put their savings in the stock market.
Just before the crash, my grandfather had sold out to Borden ,because he was facing a huge cost of installing "quarter pounder"
processing equipment, to cut butter as we know it now.

The following year my retired grandfather was selling Fords to make a living. Tough times.
And then he bought the agency, and the land, and we still have it in West Orange, NJ. Gas station on the
property now. But all because my grandfather was a seriously hardworking guy. And had a desire to succeed, "get ahead" I suppose
and when he finally retired again and bought our farm in 1939, this time I believe he put what he had left after buying the farm in the local bank.
No more Wall Street for him. This is no rags to riches story, just confirming what everyone has said about drive and ambition.

When I go through the drive-thru at Chick Filet, the employees are amazingly good, bright, articulate, absolutely NOT starting level.
It always impressed me that the company was smart enough to put their best most cheerful employees in places of customer contact.
A nice smile in the morning will sure bring me back again. But when I am met with a grunt and mumbled words from an inarticulate, barely high school educated young lady who likely could not pass any English test anywhere, and she looks just as bored as she could be. No hope. And if you can't speak understandable English in this day and age, you are really at a disadvantage.

To me the Holy Grail is that all folk who want to work should be able to, according to their talent,
and earn a living wage. If that means working two jobs, well, an awful lot of people do. I was lucky, I could
earn enough in one job and never had to do that. Anyone who works a second job is saying they don't want a handout, they
want to earn. And God bless them. Of course there has to be an adequately paying second job out there in the first place.
And with the slowly rising economy, I think there are more and more of them now.

My Dad told me early on a simple thing, but I sure remembered it: there are no warranties or guarantees in life
Meaning we are owed nothing, we have to do it all ourselves, and btw, outwork everyone around you.
And my brothers and I did and succeeded. Two of my brothers still get to work at 5am. I smile, like a farmer...:thumbsup:

 

[keegs]

WealthTrack Video on Demand

 

[daugen]

WealthTrack Video on Demand

Diversified portfolio, heavy in stocks, finance sector is down and offers a good opportunity, plus some real estate

long but helpful.

So where do the folk who traditionally are positioned 30/70 in retirement move some of that fixed income without increasing risk?
Or is staying put more risky... I might let things hike up to 50/50, but that's the end of my comfort level.
This really makes me think of buying real estate instead...or perhaps a RE index; I need liquidity. But it seems when the market is plunging, makes no matter what sector you are in, the boat is going down fast...at least for awhile. How does one NOT go for that ride and still get an investment yield that exceeds the inflation rate? By about 5 percent please...:thumbsup:

 

[keegs]

We're about 6 years out and at about 75/25. I'm really on the fence about changing our allocation at a time when most would suggest we should be heading into more conservative territory. What's conservative these days though? As you imply, that's the question....and the point, in my view, that Shiller makes as well.

 

[Gator6x4]

There are lots and lots of minimum wage earners in the US today. A nation cannot have a high school dropout rate of forty (40%) like we have in some school districts and have a workers pool capable of doing anything except a minimum wage job.

Years ago two saying were prevalent, (1.) Keep them dumb and on the farm, (2.) Keep them barefoot and pregnant. Farms are gone but the pregnant part is still being practiced.

The youth of today who are in the work force are being deceived big time. They are paying into SS and then the funds are being siphoned off and used elsewhere and replaced with a treasury note. Has anyone looked at what treasury notes are paying interest wise? Think of the billions of dollars in interest the workers of today who are paying into SS are being bilked out of because of the depressed interest being paid on treasuries. This is depleting the funds available for future retirees and also contributes to a decline in the available funds to pay present day retirees.

Treasury securities
This week Month ago Year ago
One-Year Treasury Constant Maturity
0.15 0.17 0.20

91-day T-bill auction avg disc rate
0.075 0.125 0.085
182-day T-bill auction avg disc rate
0.105 0.135 0.150
Two-Year Treasury Constant Maturity
0.26 0.27 0.39
Five-Year Treasury Constant Maturity
0.80 0.87 1.16
Ten-Year Treasury Constant Maturity
1.94 2.00 2.32
One-Year CMT (Monthly)
0.16 0.15 0.16
One-Year MTA
0.178 0.178 0.158

 

[rockntp]

$$$ ius about to become worthless. "O" the want to be dictator and the rest in Washington are makeing it that way; how much can you buy for $20.00 than you could a few years ago?? They are working in every way possible to take total control of EVERY THING. Around a THOUSAND excutive orders to allow the goverment to control any thing you can think of. Past presidents passed up to 8 excutive orders!! Martial law is haveing PRACTICE runs at public control---for civil upriseing HA. The fellow who said he was restricted to how nuch ammo he could buy (.22 shells!!) is goverment control of our 2nd ammendant back door entry. YES it is about to become VERY bad not a deppression but total failure of our money system. Anyone who that can support and feed themselves have a chance if they can defend them selves against all the ones who become desperate. I very saddely am not prepared.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Your executive order numbers are flat out wrong. Please research your facts more thoroughly. The truth is out there.

Here. I'll help.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/executiveorders.asp

 

[dmccarty]

The video assumes all folks want to be wealthy and that America is not fair to those that have little wealth.

Maybe it is growing up in the Bay Area that has skewed my perception... there are plenty of people I personally know that have no desire to be wealthy... or at least unwilling to put the effort forward to try.

There still are a lot of 1960's hippies living among the Redwoods that just want a simple existence... they, in fact shun materialism... just as many I know that live in Berkeley today.

There are also plenty that just want to have their smokes, their beer or puff marijuana.

Any full discourse on fairness would be incomplete if it didn't account for people that shun wealth.

The other additions to the discussion is the ease to get into the top N% and how many families stay in the top N%. The reality is the Bill Gates will die and what will happen to his money? He seems to be trying to get rid of most of it but I assume he has set up up a trust or two for his kids. But there is the old saying that the first generation makes the money, the second generation holds onto the money while the third generation looses the money. Frankly, it seems that this happens in two generations and not three. Just like wealth in land can get diluted over the generations so is non land wealth.

If we don't like wealth, the simple answer is to take the money from the wealthy. Which is what the UK did in the last part of the 20th century. Boy they sure are better off today aren't they. I don't want to be rich. I don't want to have to work that hard, that much, and that focused. I have other things to do in this life. People don't understand how much work there is in getting rich. I see executives working far more hours than I do or want to do. They are on call all of the time and they have to make tough decisions. They might have perks I don't like but they often have a pretty heavy price for failure. They might be able to fly in a private plane to Disney World but they are the ones on the phone working while their family is on the ride. The papers are full of stories of Golden Parachutes but middle management has the responsibility and risk with no soft landing.

While I don't want to be rich in the top N% definition, if I manage to hold onto my current job, I will certainly be very well off because we have saved money, watched spending, and made tough decisions. That wealth will surly push us into the top level on some scale but I guess the answer is to take the money from us to give to some SOB just because...

Warren Buffets wealth does not affect me. Government policies that have increased the national debt, increased unemployment, increased inflation, created bubbles requiring government bail outs, forcing me to consume, and the weakest recovery since WWII DOES affect me.

Later,
Dan