D Day

   / D Day #11  
It must have been terrifying going in onto the beaches. Dd-Day was a big deal, but there were many significant battles and for anyone in combat, his little war was just as significant.

D-Day and Normandy get a lot of publicity, probably from the US point of view that it was the beginning of the end. Other major battles get ignored, some with larger casualty lists:
63,000 casualties at Normandy while at Monte Casino, 100,000+, The Bulge, 89,500, Okinawa, 51,000, but remember a lot of those Marines and soldiers in the Pacific participated in several invasions. And remember, the Russians lost 27 million during WWII.

We were at Normandy on June 5 one year and the French were really celebrating D-Day, dressing up in American, British and Canadian uniforms, waving allied flags, running around in WWII vehicles. Couldn't stay for the D-Day celebration the next day.
 
   / D Day #12  
One of the sad parts of this discussion is certainly the daily loss of these patriots, my dad's generation, who made this sacrifice. I wish I had been able to get my dad to the WWII memorial in Washington, D.C. before he passed away. But was it especially disappointing to me is the lack of recognition by the current generation of this sacrifice. I suspect that very little is taught about our nation's history because if you ask I suspect that very few of the young folks today could tell you what D day was. I usually put together a rant in August of each year when some people get together and sing songs and light candles to remember the dropping of the two atomic bombs on Japan yet the same people fail to show up in December to remember Pear.

As I get older I tend to reflect a little more on what it has taken to keep us a free nation. I only wish that the generations that follow me would ponder this as well. So I appreciate the reminder every year about the sacrifices the WWII generation made. As Tom Brokaw said, they were the "greatest generation". Its tough to argue they weren't.
 
   / D Day #13  
Some of my dad's unit landed on Omaha, Easy Red. Because he could weld, he was held back for two weeks to do equipment modifications before he landed. He drove an ammo truck supplying mortar shells to the front lines. I often think that if he had not been held back, I might not be here.

One of many horrible big and small battles.

Yes, shame on our education system for it's lack of teaching history. I doubt many kids today know much, if anything, about WWII.
 
   / D Day #14  
A few years back, I had the opportunity to visit the Normandy area and the American Cemetary and beach landing sites in France. Standing there looking out over the rows and rows of crosses is a very humbling experience. Given the distance from the ocean to the first bit of cover it's amazing that anyone survived. At the top of the hour, bells chime out America the Beautiful at the American Cemetary.....talk about a tear jerker. The US pays for it, but the cemetary grounds are meticulously maintained.
 
   / D Day #15  
...

D-Day and Normandy get a lot of publicity, probably from the US point of view that it was the beginning of the end. Other major battles get ignored, some with larger casualty lists:
63,000 casualties at Normandy while at Monte Casino, 100,000+, The Bulge, 89,500, Okinawa, 51,000, but remember a lot of those Marines and soldiers in the Pacific participated in several invasions. And remember, the Russians lost 27 million during WWII.
...

A battle that very few have heard about is the Battle of Buna on New Guinea. The battle had more casualties than Guadalcanal. Buna was a big mess made worse by Dug Out Doug MacArthur's micro management of a battle while he was hundreds and thousands of miles away. Ol' Dug Out did not have a clue about the terrain, the strength of Japanese defenses, and worse, he was clue less to the conditions of is own men. He ordered attacks at all costs even though his men were almost all sick with various tropical diseases, were starving, had little ammo, worn out clothes, no artillery support, and lacked training and experience.

The battle was kept quiet because of the huge casualties and incompetence on Dug Out's part. Of course, lower level officers and men were blamed for the failures of Dug Out Doug.

In hindsight, the Japanese made a huge mistake at Buna. Buna is a port on the east side of the New Guinea. Port Moresby is on the west coast and has a better port and airfield. The Japanese after much hardship had climbed the Owen Stanly mountains and it was down hill to Moresby. If the Japanese had taken Port Moresby, they would have an air base that allowed them to more easily attack north eastern Australia. The Japanese were ordered to retreat back to Buna so that more resources could be poured into Guadalcanal which turned into a great big kill zone for the Japanese. The Japanese onslaught across the Asia was loosing it energy and they were over extended trying to fight in too many places with too few resources. Once the Japanese retreated into Buna they could have been left their to starve. They were isolated by sea and air power and the Japanese forces could have been bypassed. But Dug Out back in his nice comfy HQ decided otherwise.

The result was so bad, the battle was kept quiet.

Later,
Dan
 
   / D Day #16  
Glorious time for the USA when we came together and defeated the worst enemies the world has or had ever seen. Just don't think the same patriotism is observed these days.

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet
 
   / D Day #17  
... I suspect that very little is taught about our nation's history because if you ask I suspect that very few of the young folks today could tell you what D day was. I usually put together a rant in August of each year when some people get together and sing songs and light candles to remember the dropping of the two atomic bombs on Japan yet the same people fail to show up in December to remember Pear....

My oldest is learning about WWII in school but at best, kids get maybe a year of US history in high school and if the go to college, maybe another semester. Its not enough time to get much more than an sampling of US history much less read about other time periods or countries.

Amazon.com: **** to Pay: Operation DOWNFALL and the Invasion of Japan, 1945-1947 eBook: D. M. Giangreco: Books. In the last few years there are only two books that I have had to put down because of the enormity of what I was reading. The book in the link is one and the other is a biography of Mao. I finished the linked book and one day I will have to finish the book on Mao. Reading history, especially WWII is something I have been doing since fourth grade. The book in the link is not the first book I have read about the Invasion of Japan that thankfully never happened but this book was a real eye opener.

The invasion would have been a blood bath the likes of which has never been seen before. For sure one of if not two of my grandfathers would have been in the invasion and I doubt they would have lived. I would still be alive because my parents were already born but our lives would have been completely different.

What the US did not know:
  • There were far more suicide boats than planned.
  • The Japanese had about three months worth of aviation gas while the US thought they had none.
  • There were either 25,000 or 50,000 planes in reserve to use that gas including suicide planes.
  • The Japanese were going to target transport ships to inflict maximum casualties. That one is kinda obvious.
  • The Japanese knew exactly which beaches would be landed on first and when. This stuff is not rocket science and was easy to figure out.
  • Defense systems were well advanced and would have been ready for the initial US landings.
  • Supplies had been moved forward and safely stored in the battle areas.
  • Far more combat units were in place than known. Worse, divisions of combat experience soldiers had moved from Manchuria into Japan without US intelligence noticing.
  • The Japanese had figured out that land blocks radar. Because of geography, US air attacks would be masked by mountains making early warning very difficult.
  • The Japanese had also noticed the wood framed planes do not show up on radar very well and they planned to exploit this with suicide attacks.
  • Worst of all, the Japanese though they could win the war even if it meant loosing 20% of their population which meant 20 million people. It is unclear if that 20 million figure includes just civilians or include military personal.

One really has to wonder if 20 million dead is an accurate figure. Japan is a very small place made more compact by heavy forests and mountains that limit places were people can live. Those heavy forests and mountain are great for defensive military operations but cause massive casualties to the attacker. Given that the population was concentrated in the easy to access geography that is where US forces would HAVE to go, where the Japanese would defend, and the civilians casualties would have been huge. Furthermore, the Japanese did not consider civilians non combatants. They were training their kids to be attack the allied forces on suicide missions. The slaughter would have been huge.

The Japanese population was already starting to starve when the atomic bombs were dropped. The Japanese surrender allowed food that was being stockpiled for the invasion to be moved to Japan to prevent mass starvation. Some argue that the US should not drop the bombs because an atomic bomb is somehow more immoral than a conventional bomb and that we should have starved out the Japanese. What they are arguing for is the starvation of millions of civilians. Is that MORE moral than just a quick killing? The fact is that the Japanese would NOT be starved into submission for years, if ever, and the effort would have starved millions of civilians.

On the US side, we were having a massive demobilization in the middle of a war. Hundreds of thousands of service members had earned enough points to be discharged and where. There was public pressure to get these service members home, especially after Germany was beaten. The problem was that the US had a shortage of ground combat units and would be attacking Japan with less than what the US thought they needed. The reality was that the US needed for more units/men than they knew about because of the Japanese preparations. Then there is the weather impact on ground operations that was going to slow down advances and thus raise casualties.

One of the more interesting parts of the book was the preparations to provide blood supplies to the invasion. Just before the invasion there was going to be a big push to increase the blood supplies via blood drives all of the country. Ships had been outfitted with cooling systems to hold the blood near Japan. The big question was would there be a large enough blood supply to support the casualties and a loss of any one of these ships would have been a disaster...

I have read and I guess it is true, that until recently, the US was still using Purple Hearts that had been made in WWII in anticipation of the casualties from an invasion of Japan.

If we had invaded Japan, the blood bath would have been unreal to both sides. The bombs really did save millions of lives.

Later,
Dan
 
   / D Day #19  
.... As Tom Brokaw said, they were the "greatest generation". Its tough to argue they weren't.

Which was the Greatest Generation, the generation of the US Revolutionary War, the US Civil War, or WWII? Which generation risked more, lost more people, lost more economically and suffered more casualties?

Later,
Dan
 
   / D Day #20  
Which was the Greatest Generation, the generation of the US Revolutionary War, the US Civil War, or WWII? Which generation risked more, lost more people, lost more economically and suffered more casualties?

Later,
Dan

Now, now Dan. We have been down this road before on TBN. :)
 

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