2160 wont start :(

[Millsi]

Over the last month my 2160 has progressively been getting harder to start when cold. Starts and runs fine when warm. Yesterday it wouldnt start at all, tried glowing it for 60 sec but no difference? Hooked it up to the car battery and it turned over faster but still wouldnt fire even after glowing it.
If the glow plug resistor is glowing does that mean all glow plugs are functioning or could there be a problem with one or more?
The smoke coming out when trying to start is a pretty normal colour.
Also tried using aerostart but made no difference
Where to start?

 

[Egon]

Do the usual, check the fuel supply, check amps the glow plugs are drawing and consider checking compression.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

When you say the smoke is "normal" when starting what do you consider normal? If the smoke is black then you're getting enough heat for combustion. If white, you're not. If somewhere in between (light gray to dark gray) then it's probably not getting enough heat for ideal combustion (ring/valve/glow plug problem usually). As Egon stated the best way to check glow plugs is amp draw. My 2160 pulls about 45 to50 amps when all plugs are working correctly or about 15 amps each. Another quick way to check if you only have a general multimeter is check the resistance across each plug (disconnect the wires to all of them first). It should be about one ohm each. Again, amp readings are better though.

 

[Egon]

Forgot to mention air cleaners and air supply.

 

[Millsi]

Smoke is brown/black.
Took the air cleaner off but it made no difference

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

What is your fuel lever set at when trying to start? At full fuel setting it should be putting out a lot of smoke. If the air supply is not restricted then the next step is a difficult one (fuel+air+ignition usually equates to a running engine or at least a fire somewhere). Generally timing does not enter into the equation on diesels unless someone was messing with it.

 

[upsetray]

From my experience usually if one glow plugs stops working ,that usually leads the operator to glow too long and burns out the others . my first suggestion is to make sure you have a good supply of fuel to the pump. In 70 degree weather ,it should not need to be glowed to start the engine . Check the air cleaner then be sure it`s getting air . then make sure nobody put something in the exhaust pipe. Set the throttle and give it a try . Ultimately it should start if it turns over fast enough . Let us know if you get any results .

 

[Millsi]

It goes closer to starting on full throttle, so pulled the fuel filter out. was very dirty (hard to tell looking through the old plastic bowl)
Disnt have a spare filter laying around so tried without the filter as the tank look clean inside. Still no go.
Maybe some crap has gotten past the filter and block an injector or 2 or maybe something internally in the fuel pump??

 

[upsetray]

Don`t run the engine without filters , can cause untold damage . I am still thinking it is a fuel related problem . I would drain all fuel and put new fuel in it . If by some fluke someonr put some gas in it ,it would cause your symptoms . My dad did that to mine once . I replaced the fuel and bled the fuel lines , solved my problem. Just saying

 

[upsetray]

My final suggestion is to put it inside for a day to warm up . Then try to start it . It should start , without the glow plugs . that should tell you if they ar working too .

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

It goes closer to starting on full throttle...

How heavy is the smoke at full throttle when trying to start? I realize thick smoke to one person is not to another but it should be pretty thick if fuel is getting to it like it should. You shouldn't be able to see through the smoke coming immediately out of the exhaust pipe when fueled properly. It could be lack of of fuel or could be you have a cylinder that is not firing due to low compression. These engines will run on less than 3 cylinders so by adding more fuel it may be trying to start off 1 or 2 cylinders. Hopefully it's just a fuel restriction though.

 

[Millsi]

The tractor lives in a garage under the house (spoilt).
I have a compression tester, though dont have the correct adapter to go into the glow plug holes.
I pulled the glow plugs out to have a look and they are relativley new and didnt have much carbon build up on them. I did crank it over a few times with the plugs out and there seems to be a decent amount of fuel and air coming out of each (not that that really means much)
What if i emptied the radiator and then filled with hot water, crank the engine a few times then tried to start it. Too much thermal shock?

 

[Millsi]

I will get a vid of it trying to start and post it up

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

A video would be helpful. What is your ambient air temp when trying to start? Filling it with hot water doesn't really do much for you to determine the root cause. If it was lacking heat that would definitely be a way to help it out though. I'm assuming it isn't that cold where you are now but not familair with the weather there at this time.

 

[Millsi]

Nope not cold at all really, as cold as 42 at night and days are around 70.

 

[Millsi]

Guess I should update this.

Took the injectors out and had them rebuilt, the guy who rebuilt them says just by looking at the injectors he can tell that my injection pump is stuffed and asked if the tractor had been hard to start.

I priced a new injection unit which is still available from Japan. Just under aud $1400. Had a quote of $1200 to fix the old pump.

So as soon as I have the $$ I will order a new pump. Should last me another 20 years I've been told.

 

[Kernopelli]

" just by looking at the injectors he can tell that my injection pump is stuffed" ...and he'll be good enough to order new one for $1400!! Here in the U.S. small injector pump rebuilds probably average $300+. He sounds like a scam artist to me. For that kind of money ( $1200 - $1400), you can buy a complete low hour K3B engine. Start searching the internet for a good used pump like this Mitsubishi K3B Satoh Buck Injector Pump | eBay

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

I took an injector pump from a KE70 to an injector shop and they told me it was "stuffed". They rebuilt it (all new internals) and also put new injector tips on to the tune of about $500 U.S. Made almost no difference in the way it started or ran. I think the new tips might have helped some, they were $26, but it was hardly noticable. Seems like looking at the injectors to dianose a pump would be similar to a doctor stating you have heart failure by looking at your ankle! I'm not saying your pump isn't bad, just that it's a pretty rare thing from my experience and to do a proper diagnosis would require it to be "bench tested" at a specialized diesel injector pump service shop. As Kernopelli stated, I'd look elsewhere for a fix and keep at least some of the money in your pocket.

 

[Millsi]

The guy who did the injectors had nothing to do with the quote for the new pump.

I will attempt to remove the pump and take it to a specialist to get their opinion on exactly what requires fixing.

 

[Kernopelli]

The guy who did the injectors had nothing to do with the quote for the new pump.

That restores some faith in his motives and I don't doubt at all a new pump would run well in excess of $1000....just sounded like a half-hearted diagnosis to me initially. Before I spent that kind of money, I would check the compression though. You should be able to find the right size adapter online and you can usually buy individual adapters ( not just assorted size kits).

I assumed you had a K3B but saw just now that some came with a KE75. Curious which engine you have? The two things that I have had starting issues with an otherwise healthy engine in warm weather were connected to old fuel and engine cranking speed. I know you have jumped the battery but is it turning the engine over quickly enough? Very hard to tell by my tach but it appears if cranking speed is under +200rpm it causes similar symptoms to your tractor. If the starter is getting tired or there is voltage or amp draw issue you may not be getting enough spin out of the starter to light the engine off easily. If the engine turns over too slowly, the injection pump can't generate enough fuel pressure, and the piston speed will be too low to generate a high enough air temperature to initiate combustion, causing hard starting problems. Here is a basic starter diagnosis link Starter Circuit Diagnosis. It could also be an issue of low compression....not necessarily worn rings or cylinder. Compression issues could possibly be solved with a simple valve adjustment in some cases. Just some thoughts......