DK45 FEL capacity issues?

[sdef]

Good day,

I have a fairly new DK45SE HST and have been doing a lot of maintenance items around the house, learning how to operate it, modifying it, etc. before I take it to my property 35 miles away, where it will stay while I am clearing the lot for our retirement home.

The FEL is rated at 2761# lift capacity at the pin, 3727# breakout at the pin and 4633# rollback at the ground. I have no prior tractor experience I can relate my current issues to.

Today is the first day I have worked the FEL hard and that was while I was moving old, dead fallen trees and moving some dirt. I had a 48" rock grapple bucket (550# net) that I snagged some live tree roots with a few times, along with those heavy duty teeth probably stuck in the clayish mixture beneath the root and which stopped the FEL from lifting or curling up. At no time did I hear anything like a hydraulic relief valve opening or any other change in sound. The FEL was just not going to lift the load and I moved the tractor backwards to get out from under the ~ 3" diameter oak root.

And when getting the 72" wide standard bucket with Pirannah tooth bar full of dirt, a few times the tractor died, when I assume I had the bucket stuck into the small hillside I was digging into and curling up while moving forward. The engine RPMs were around 2000 and I increased them which seemed to help.

The FEL will easily lift the front of the tractor, which I have done on occasion while digging earth with the tractor moving or stationary, either curling the bucket down or pushing down with the FEL.

In reading many different posts on TBN this year, I have read numerous accounts of people indicating that when the FEL exceeds the maximum PSI the relief is set to, it will go into bypass and I was expecting to hear some type of change in noise when this happened, and I did not in either case.

So, are what I am seeing and hearing normal or should I have heard something if the relief valve pressure setting was exceeded?

I really was expecting more performance than what I experienced today and wonder if there is not enough pressure being developed to cause the relief valve to open?

Or maybe the relief valve could be defective or maladjusted?

I was running the engine ~2000 RPM, which two dealers told me it should be at (HST). Should it be closer to the red line to build up hydraulic relief pressure?

Hydraulic fluid is between the add and full lines.

To know if it is developing enough hydraulic pressure and at what RPM, my next step will be to build a hydraulic pressure gauge to insert in the lines and get some readings for proper troubleshooting and learning. Does anyone have any idea the coupling sizes used on the KL401 FEL? 3/8" Ag maybe?

Thanks.

 

[whis]

sounds normal to me you wont hear the relief valve

 

[sdef]

sounds normal to me you wont hear the relief valve

Great and thanks. I was under the impression I would hear it so was a bit concerned. I need to have a pressure test device anyway so just ordered parts for an inline device from Discount Hydraulic Hose.

 

[IXLR8]

I have a DK40, I have not heard the pressure relief valve itself when I hit the limit. But I can hear a difference in tone to the engine like it is working harder when I hit the limit. I typically run the engine at 1500-1800 rpm, I have stalled it a few times running the loader and I am starting to run at higher rpms. I put 250hrs on my CK30, always ran it in the 1500-1800 range and I never stalled it!!?? Except for loader capacity... the more I run my DK40... the more I miss my CK30.

 

[Coyote machine]

When pushed to the 'limit' you should hear a noise change from the engine/hydraulics, and the RPMs should also drop somewhat. When you release/let up on the forward hydro pedal the RPMs should come back up to where they were, or you stall. Do you have a rear remote engaged for a hoe or something else that takes power from the hydraulics? If you have a rear remote engaged, the one with the detent positions, you will loose power to the FEL and if nothing is attached to the remote you will burn out your hydro pump.

 

[sdef]

I have a DK40, I have not heard the pressure relief valve itself when I hit the limit. But I can hear a difference in tone to the engine like it is working harder when I hit the limit. I typically run the engine at 1500-1800 rpm, I have stalled it a few times running the loader and I am starting to run at higher rpms. I put 250hrs on my CK30, always ran it in the 1500-1800 range and I never stalled it!!?? Except for loader capacity... the more I run my DK40... the more I miss my CK30.

I got my DK45 and HST, along with its weight specifically for loader operations and ROBB usage. I do not recall the engine loading down any when I am at max. capacity.

 

[Coyote machine]

I have a DK40, <snip>Except for loader capacity... the more I run my DK40... the more I miss my CK30.

Curious what you mean by this? What about the CK30 do you miss specifically?

 

[IXLR8]

Curious what you mean by this? What about the CK30 do you miss specifically?

I miss the maneuverability and the single HST pedal, I can't tell you the number of times I have pushed the go pedal and gone in the wrong direction. I am presently designing a single pedal system to operate the HST. The wider tires on the CK didn't mess up my yard and it was easier to fit into my tractor storage area. I never stalled the CK, stalling the DK happens too often is a bit embarrassing and frustrating, especially when doing a paying job with the customer watching. I just felt more intimate with the CK, like I knew where everything was, from the first minute of operation. With the DK I am constantly checking where is the loader, tires, BH with respect to what I am doing, I just don't feel comfortable with it. I liked the feel/control/response of the FEL better on the CK. FEL movement is slower on the DK and I get impatient waiting for it after the speed of the FEL on the CK. I only have 10 hrs on the DK, so I know some of these issues will go away with time.
The DK starts faster, warms up faster, electric 4wd is nice.. that is one thing I don't miss on the CK, fighting with the lever to engage/disengage 4wd. Now that I finally have some ballast on the back of the DK, I can finally use the FEL for the purposes that I bought the tractor for. If the weather cooperates I will find out for sure this weekend.
One of the reasons for getting rid of the CK was it had trouble lifting a bucket fill of dirt. I knew it had an over-sized bucket on it the previous owner put on it for moving snow but I didn't know it's size. After I finalized the deal to trade it in, I found out the bucket was a construction duty 9 cuft bucket, the standard bucket for a CK30 is a 7 cuft bucket. Add to that an aftermarket SSQA rated for 3000lbs and no wonder it wouldn't lift a full bucket. There are times I just wish I had gotten the proper bucket for the CK and kept it. Considering the weight of the larger bucket, with the weight of the heavy duty QA, I am surprised at what the FEL on that little tractor could lift.

 

[k0ua]

Please don't take this the wrong way, others have said the same thing, but "how do you stall the engine of a HST equipped tractor?" I have never done it. And would not know how to make it stall. The only thing I can think of is the Hydrostats relief valve was set very high? How can you possibly stall the engine? I have run up against immovable objects many times, One of two things happen, if in low range, the tires will spin, sometimes all 4.. or if in Med or High, they will either spin a bit and/or the relief valve will open on the hydro, and it will just "whine" and not move.. But in neither case has the engine died. It will drop RPM of course as it loads, but unless you were at such a low RPM that it dropped below where it could sustain rotary motion?.. Combination of low RPM, and very high hydrostat relief valve setting? Someone please 'splain this to me, I have been meaning to ask about it for a long time.

James K0UA

 

[IXLR8]

Please don't take this the wrong way, others have said the same thing, but "how do you stall the engine of a HST equipped tractor?"

James K0UA

I don't know either, I never did it with the CK, it acted just like you described, spin the wheels or HST whine. Running at the same rpm's, 1500-1800 on the DK as I did on the CK.. several times I have run into a pile of dirt to pick up a load and the engine stalled. I find if I run the rpms higher, 2000-2200 I stall it less often and if I run it at 2400 rpm and higher I don't stall it. I have no idea why the difference. I just hate listening to the engine running at 2400 rpm when I don't think I should have to.