Saw a Coyote? on our Land

   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #41  
Nice pictures. There are a lot of coyote and fox here, bears and wolves. Haven't seen any coyote, but have seen the bears, have heard the foxes - often, and the wolves once. I do see skunks and fisher. First time it scared the bejeebers out of me. Fishers are big (30"s) weasel-type animals that eat everything: even porcupines. Its all interesting.
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #42  
I have heard that a mule does a great job of keeping coyotes out. Folks tell me that they kick the crap outta them.
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #43  
Okay. What is it worth to you and others to protect habitat by preventing the land subdivision process you describe? It is worth something, quite a bit actually, but the cost or value of that is nowhere to be found. Why is that? How can something real be valued while no one places a dollar amount on it? It can't, and that is the problem in a nutshell. It isn't that it has no value, the issue is that the value is not being recognized.

As a small landowner, I provide the habitat that allows deer and moose hunting. I provide the ecosystem that puts clean water in fishing brooks and lakes. The state sells licenses to harvest what cannot be provided without landowner inputs, yet I don't get paid or compensated for what I am providing. In fact, I pay property taxes for the pleasure of providing free resources. It is another example of a valued resource with no dollar amount attached to it.

We can't sustain unrecognized or ignored costs and benefits in a market-driven economy. It isn't working now, and it isn't going to work as human population levels and increased consumption drive the situation to further unbalanced conditions. How to fix it is above my pay grade, but it needs adjustments somehow.

Maybe a good place to begin would be to stop subsidizing everything under the sun. That requires education and understanding because those subsidies are the "will of the people", the government is just the administrator. If we started paying and benefiting in anything near true values, the market would resolve the issues by itself I think.

If the true cost of shipping sheep products from New Zealand to the US were paid, would it be possible to build ships and burn bunker oil to propel them? There is a lot of environmental degradation involved: mining, drilling, smelting, material transport, and carbon fuel use. None of those are beauty marks on the planet but nobody is paying for the direct and indirect damage with real dollars. I believe if the true costs had to be paid, a lamb from the farmer nearby would be cheaper by far and he could still afford good fences.

Nature is full of prey and predators; eat or be eaten is pretty much the rule of the system. Predators are necessary whether they are wasps or coyotes. We don't mind predation unless it intersects with our financial interests, such as with coyotes and lambs or deer. We know from records written during colonial settlement that wolves did not wipe out the deer or moose, for example. Both were plentiful when Europeans arrived. There is no reason to believe that coyotes are capable of wiping out the deer today. The populations of each are in great flux, and human activities have created and continue to contribute to this situation.

The reasons for human intervention and contribution to change have always been based on financial motives. It is plain and simple a money problem. What money can break, money can fix.

Population growth is driving the urbanization of the planet, such as the problem you described with land developers. Developers need customers, population growth provides an endless stream of customers. If you look at the biodiversity in an urban environment, it's pretty poor. Take away the cock roaches, pigeons, rats and squirrels and there isn't much left.

If we don't want that scenario to be the future of the planet, we need to recognize that is where we are headed and start avoiding it now. We cannot recreate biodiversity once it is lost. Protecting habitat and biodiversity should be a priority. Without biodiversity, we will be eating test tube food and living in an endless cityscape, probably underground because there will be nothing on the surface but toxic air, water and soil.

I realize that none of my blather solves your day-to-day problem of keeping the lambs alive and the coyotes in check. :laughing: However, I think the long term solutions are important to think about.

Dave, Yours is a very well written and well thought out comment. Thanks.

A couple of good examples of the problems with population growth and urbanization for profit can be seen in California and China. In the Central Valley in CA, some of the most fertile ground on the planet is being converted to housing projects. These aren't upper end retirement homes, but middle class boxes spreading over vast farm lands. All by developers for profit. Short term profit for a developer removes food production areas forever. In China, where the population increase went wild and they we're literally unable to produce enough to feed themselves, virtually all the wildlife, including birds, disappeared. Vast cities filled with multistory apartments have taken over the landscape and the pollution levels are so bad it looks like a thick fog. Rivers are way to dangerous to get into, much less drink. With their new found wealth, instead of working toward sustainability and learning from experience, profit is driving everything. Everyone wants a car, new toys and modern consumer goods first.

When people become more comfortable, they seem to find more things to be discontent about. Our society and system has been so good for so long that we aren't used to having to make much compromise for sustainability. We don't like being told what to do. When you stir in special interest groups that know how to game the system and have an endless list of dire situations, and an ever expanding government that begins to limit personal freedoms, you get louder and louder argument. It becomes harder for a common person to know what is important and not just someone else's agenda. In a system where profit is king and individualism is admired, it's hard to agree on solutions. Nobody wants to be told what they can't do regardless of how short sighted, cruel or dangerous it is.

One guy wants to use coyotes for target practice because he likes to shoot and needs a target. He'll tell us they are mindless nuisances. Another is willing to go along because he wants to keep his sheep safe. Another is horrified at the cruelty, but may know nothing about ranching profits. Another wants no shooting in the vicinity of his home and family. Another wants pelts for profit and another wants to remind everyone that he has his rights to own and use his gun. Still another wants no people an the land at all. They all live in the same area. Who is right? Who gets to choose? Without respect, there is no answer. No matter what happens, the argument gets louder.
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #44  
Dave, Yours is a very well written and well thought out comment. Thanks.

A couple of good examples of the problems with population growth and urbanization for profit can be seen in California and China. In the Central Valley in CA, some of the most fertile ground on the planet is being converted to housing projects. These aren't upper end retirement homes, but middle class boxes spreading over vast farm lands. All by developers for profit. Short term profit for a developer removes food production areas forever. In China, where the population increase went wild and they we're literally unable to produce enough to feed themselves, virtually all the wildlife, including birds, disappeared. Vast cities filled with multistory apartments have taken over the landscape and the pollution levels are so bad it looks like a thick fog. Rivers are way to dangerous to get into, much less drink. With their new found wealth, instead of working toward sustainability and learning from experience, profit is driving everything. Everyone wants a car, new toys and modern consumer goods first.

When people become more comfortable, they seem to find more things to be discontent about. Our society and system has been so good for so long that we aren't used to having to make much compromise for sustainability. We don't like being told what to do. When you stir in special interest groups that know how to game the system and have an endless list of dire situations, and an ever expanding government that begins to limit personal freedoms, you get louder and louder argument. It becomes harder for a common person to know what is important and not just someone else's agenda. In a system where profit is king and individualism is admired, it's hard to agree on solutions. Nobody wants to be told what they can't do regardless of how short sighted, cruel or dangerous it is.

One guy wants to use coyotes for target practice because he likes to shoot and needs a target. He'll tell us they are mindless nuisances. Another is willing to go along because he wants to keep his sheep safe. Another is horrified at the cruelty, but may know nothing about ranching profits. Another wants no shooting in the vicinity of his home and family. Another wants pelts for profit and another wants to remind everyone that he has his rights to own and use his gun. Still another wants no people an the land at all. They all live in the same area. Who is right? Who gets to choose? Without respect, there is no answer. No matter what happens, the argument gets louder.

John, I think you hit a lot nails squarely on their heads with your comments. The argument is getting louder with no end in sight.

The expansion of government is also driven by population growth and the complexity of what that population is doing. An analogy would be that a town with ten automobiles doesn't need a traffic light. Add in enough ego-driven drivers and pretty soon you need all sorts of things, rules and people to make driving a survivable experience.

I'm with you on the "dire needs" which are also endless. That has become a big business in its own right. I obviously support environmental issues. However, I am getting curmudgeonly about buying lunch for politicians to convince them to do what has to be done if they want their grandchildren to inherit a inhabitable planet as we know it. There seems to be an endless supply of ignorant politicians with no vision or basic morality, and voters to keep them in office.

The reality may be that the human species will have to swim in its own cesspool for a while before fundamental values will be altered by necessity. That's usually the way it works.
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #45  
Dave, Yours is a very well written and well thought out comment. Thanks.
guy wants to use coyotes for target practice because he likes to shoot and needs a target. He'll tell us they are mindless nuisances. Another is willing to go along because he wants to keep his sheep safe. Another is horrified at the cruelty, but may know nothing about ranching profits. Another wants no shooting in the vicinity of his home and family. Another wants pelts for profit and another wants to remind everyone that he has his rights to own and use his gun. Still another wants no people an the land at all. They all live in the same area. Who is right? Who gets to choose? Without respect, there is no answer. No matter what happens, the argument gets louder.

And Raspy and Westcliffe too, thanks you guys are restoring my faith in forum discussions.

When people become more comfortable, they seem to find more things to be discontent about. Our society and system has been so good for so long that we aren't used to having to make much compromise for sustainability. We don't like being told what to do. When you stir in special interest groups that know how to game the system and have an endless list of dire situations, and an ever expanding government that begins to limit personal freedoms, you get louder and louder argument. It becomes harder for a common person to know what is important and not just someone else's agenda. In a system where profit is king and individualism is admired, it's hard to agree on solutions. Nobody wants to be told what they can't do regardless of how short sighted, cruel or dangerous it is.

Keep in mind in a situation like this (as we are in) it gets very easy for big business to keep everyone confused and fighting while they work their agendas, buying politicians. Always remember that what they want the same thing we want.

We want our outdoors and money and time to enjoy it.
They want our outdoors, and our money.
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #46  
And Raspy and Westcliffe too, thanks you guys are restoring my faith in forum discussions.



Keep in mind in a situation like this (as we are in) it gets very easy for big business to keep everyone confused and fighting while they work their agendas, buying politicians. Always remember that what they want the same thing we want.

We want our outdoors and money and time to enjoy it.
They want our outdoors, and our money.

:laughing::thumbsup:
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #47  
In my area I've been yapping that we are not being adequately represented. I write to Commissioners and the County Manager. I'm on an Advisory Board and steer meetings about local issues. I moderate conversations between neighbors and the Planning Director, etc.

One of questions to many is "are you being adequately represented?" Always the answer is no. I contend that the power is in the voting booth. It's the only real power we have. Many say it doesn't matter or why bother and I say that feeling is the problem. Or worse, they make veiled threats about taking their government back. A desperate and weak knee jerk response that removes them from the real solution.

Yes it is hard and no we haven't had to pay much attention for a long time, but we must get involved or we give our power to someone else with their own agenda.

There is so much apathy that it seems hopeless to even try to get others involved. I recognize that it takes some effort and doing it requires that I communicate with someone who is probably much better at communicating than I am and does it for a living. But what is the alternative?

Once people realize that our representatives are our employees and must be kept on a short leash and be held accountable, the power shift is amazing. Perceived power and prestige are serious drugs. The politicians job may be to get re-elected, in the shallowest sense, but it's more about selling us that he has our best interest in mind and knows the actions and methods to achieve it. I always look at the situation from the bottom up instead of the top down. It's not the politician who is dishonest and destructive, he's not the one with the answers, it's the folks who sent him there to do their business. They got what they wanted and are being represented in the way they think is best. It may be terrible in a larger sense, but it does represent the voters intent and intellect. This reveals a larger problem. If that is so, then the voting public can drive the country right off a cliff by being to lazy to actually understand the problems or being driven by prejudice or fear. They can be directed by smart folks with poor intent. In the final analysis, we are in control and we will pay the price for our poor decisions. If we don't like the direction we must make the effort to sell other voters on our position and gain a majority. It is much harder than sitting on the couch complaining and it is personally threatening to reveal so much about ourselves by arguing from the heart in front of many

I like to break down the arguments and take them to their very core. Then examine that starting point to see if it is valid or worthy or good for all. See if it's true or a misconception. See if it's based on fear or hope. Establish trust through respect, interaction and the knowledge that we all need the same thing at some level. Reveal myself and provide comfort for others to do the same. Let down our guard. Then move on. Sometimes I discover a sociopath that must be set aside and not trusted.
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #48  
Thanks for all the thoughtful discussion! I'm learning from this post and really appreciate it.

Many of you know I have a soft spot for coyotes, and I also don't know as much about them as some of you. Since their population continues to grow, and many think shooting them is the answer, which tends to increase their numbers, proper management is becoming more important.

Meanwhile, I thought I'd post a picture of a coyote I spotted on the front porch a while back. My pal BeiBei told her what was up!
Great pic, Raspy!
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #49  
This thread reminds me of an old saying.

A well fed country has many problems. A hungry country only has one.
 
   / Saw a Coyote? on our Land #50  
This thread reminds me of an old saying.

A well fed country has many problems. A hungry country only has one.

That's a useless and untrue old saying. There are places where hunger is real and where they are simultaneously destroying not only their local environment, but the effects extend beyond their borders.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2017 FREIGHTLINER CASCADIA SINGLE AXLE DAY CAB (A54313)
2017 FREIGHTLINER...
2012 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 HD Enclosed Service Truck (A53422)
2012 Chevrolet...
14179 (A55788)
14179 (A55788)
1993 Ford F700 Stakebody Flatbed Truck (A51692)
1993 Ford F700...
UNUSED DIGGIT 20'X30' METAL GARAGE CARPORT SHED (A54757)
UNUSED DIGGIT...
2019 CATERPILLAR D6T LGP HI TRACK CRAWLER DOZER (A52705)
2019 CATERPILLAR...
 
Top