Oil & Fuel New Owner - Tram pump leaking at front - Anyone have this before?

MALandscaping · Feb 1, 2014

Hi, I just picked up a 1999 Power-Trac PT 422 with 370 hours. It runs smoothly, is starting well in the cold, and doesn't make any unusual noises. However, the Tram pump (the pump closest to the hydraulic tank) is leaking near the vertical steel plate that the shaft passes through just before the love-joy connection to the engine. It is not pouring out, but if i run it for 30 min there will be a decent amount of fluid pooled up. Is this a major repair? Or is this most likely a seal? Is this DIY possible?

Anyone have this happen before? There does not appear to be an effect on performance yet. I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

MossRoad · Feb 2, 2014

Welcome to TBN! It sounds like a seal, but that's a hard place to detect a leak since its between the engine and pump. Not much room to see for sure. Most likely seal, since cracked case is doubtful. Power Trac will repair it for you if you send it to them. Don't know the costs involved. Anything is DIY, but do you have the tools and knowledge? If you attempt it yourself, remember that clean, clean, clean is the rule when dealing with hydraulic repairs. Good luck and curious as to how others will respond.

On you 1999 model, do you have the quick attach system or are the implements pinned on?

MALandscaping · Feb 2, 2014

MossRoad, thank you for the response. This is my first experience with hydraulic systems. However, I have done a lot of work on boats/jet skis, ATVs/dirt bikes, mowers, cars, and diesel trucks over the years, so I have a lot of tools and general DIY ability. I'd say I am an expert an nothing and experienced in the many. I am getting the feeling that rebuilding a hydraulic pump will require the same level of detail and cleanliness as rebuilding a diesel injector pump. I will probably first attempt myself, if anything to get to know the machine a little better.

The 1999 does have the quick attach (!!!) and the dual steering rams. It was sandblasted and repainted, and had new tires added by the seller, so she looks good as new. The Robin seems real strong, no wheel motor leaks, and came with the manuals, bucket and barely used brush mower for $4250. After reading the forums i don't think i was given the bleeder tube (unless that is normally stored/tucked in the tub somewhere). I am going to get in touch with the folks at Tazewell on Monday to see about getting a seal, bleeder tube and set of forks sent to me.

I did order my first mod yesterday, dual 48w LED square lights (4.5" x 4.5") off Amazon. The old ones of course worked when I bought it and each separately stopped working about about 5 minutes apart after getting it home and playing with snow the first night. Probably a ground or wiring issue, but I smelled an opportunity to justify an upgrade.

Look forward to talking to you all more, and please keep the Tram/Variable pump advice coming!

Wyenot · Feb 2, 2014

Injuredoften, I ran into the same problem with my 06 425. Like you I bought a used unit with just under 400 hours on the clock. It came from a tractor dealer and they had no idea about the machine. Anyways it was not leaking until I put some hard use on it lifting large logs that come close to the PT pucker on a little grade on the property. Actually lifting the bole portion of a tree felled by a twister. I noted leakage as I was going back for another piece, saw it was oil and idled it back to the garage to investigate. Heard of tram pumps self destructing and PTs not moving so wanted to get it back while I could. Noted hat the leak was a good stream down at the engine end of the tram pump like you described. Like you it was a weekend so I couldn't call Tazawell so I went to the cloud looking for info. You can find technical data for the pumps but seems like part info is hard to locate. Thinking a seal shouldn't be that big a deal I called on Monday. I described what I saw to Terry and asked what he thought. There is a seal back there but it is rare that it fails usually it is the one between the pumps away from the engine that will leak. I asked about getting a replacement but he suggested that I ship it back to him since replacement required special tools. Pulling the pump is like heart surgery. Cleanliness is crucial. I used colored ties to keep the connections straight and caps I got from a local hydraulic shop. Take lots of pictures as well because it will be about a week for turnaround with shipping. Terry did the troubleshooting and gave me an estimate on the repair. He said that air got into the system when the filter was replaced and did in the pump. I had not done any filter replacement so I know it was not damaged by me. Sometimes it takes a while for the plates to malfunction after the initial damage and I guess that it causes excess pressure and seal failure can happen before it just stops on you. It was a pricey rebuild, about $650, but now I know that the heart of my machine is as good as new. He sent me a tube to bleed the air, the gasket for between the pumps and I got a filter since it was about that time. Hope this helps.

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MALandscaping · Feb 2, 2014

Wyenot, thank you for the helpful info...I was worried about a need for special tools. I suspect the seller accidentally did the pump in by changing the filter without bleeding properly. He was surprised about the leak and said he hadn't noticed/seen before. We took $250 off thinking it would be a $2 seal and 4-6hrs of labor. I also am thrown off by everything else still working perfectly...but I guess it is a bit of Russian roulette at the the moment.

wdchyd · Feb 2, 2014

Welcome injuredoften....... Hopefully you won't be after this repair.....:laughing:

Can you post pix of the injured pump (or motor)?

Wyenot · Feb 2, 2014

I hear you. I think it is better in a way though because you know your pump is like new and you will not be wondering about that vital item anymore. I had the opportunity to meet Terry on my way up to New Hampshire to pick up my PT. Really nice bunch of folk up there. I will be going back to get a 60" mower in a few weeks and may see if they will give me some extra training while I am there. It is a shame the way the coal mining industry is being treated. I am sure that it digs into their bottom line. Maybe they will have to add a few more models and reconsider a dealer network in the future unless we can turn the Government around. They have the mining vehicles in the showroom they are awesome.

Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

MALandscaping · Feb 2, 2014

wdchyd said:
Welcome injuredoften....... Hopefully you won't be after this repair.....:laughing:

Can you post pix of the injured pump (or motor)?

I won't be able to take a pic until this weekend, but I will post one once I have it.

J_J · Feb 2, 2014

On just about every pump install, they tell you to flood the pump and rotate it slowly until all the air is bled out. Therefore, the purpose of the air bleed tube.

MossRoad · Feb 3, 2014

Injuredoften said:
MossRoad, thank you for the response. This is my first experience with hydraulic systems. However, I have done a lot of work on boats/jet skis, ATVs/dirt bikes, mowers, cars, and diesel trucks over the years, so I have a lot of tools and general DIY ability. I'd say I am an expert an nothing and experienced in the many. I am getting the feeling that rebuilding a hydraulic pump will require the same level of detail and cleanliness as rebuilding a diesel injector pump. I will probably first attempt myself, if anything to get to know the machine a little better.

The 1999 does have the quick attach (!!!) and the dual steering rams. It was sandblasted and repainted, and had new tires added by the seller, so she looks good as new. The Robin seems real strong, no wheel motor leaks, and came with the manuals, bucket and barely used brush mower for $4250. After reading the forums i don't think i was given the bleeder tube (unless that is normally stored/tucked in the tub somewhere). I am going to get in touch with the folks at Tazewell on Monday to see about getting a seal, bleeder tube and set of forks sent to me.

I did order my first mod yesterday, dual 48w LED square lights (4.5" x 4.5") off Amazon. The old ones of course worked when I bought it and each separately stopped working about about 5 minutes apart after getting it home and playing with snow the first night. Probably a ground or wiring issue, but I smelled an opportunity to justify an upgrade.

Look forward to talking to you all more, and please keep the Tram/Variable pump advice coming!

For the bleeder tube, just take the bleeder cap off of the bleed port, take it to a local hydraulic shop and tell them you need a 3' hose with a fitting to match the thread on the cap you bring in. The other end can just be the cut end of a hose. If should be relatively cheap. Heck, they may even have a broken hose they can sell you cheap.