Extended idling vs switching on and off

[Sodo]

I run my tractor when its producing useful work and shut it off when it's not. I might idle for 10 minutes the first time, so it doesn't run so short cold.

Honestly?

Other times it was a lot of fooling around to achieve a goal that only I will EVER see. And I'm glad they didn't see how much tractor power that took.

For example when I clear the sticks and dead bushes and create a beautiful little green meadow area, I marvel at it every spring, each time I pass by. But upon mention to any viewer (the HUGE burnpiles, the sweat, the backbreaking work fresh in my mind) all I ever get is, "Your place looks so nice. You gonna get that trashy stuff wayyyyyy over there (looking thru and beyond my beautiful area I'm so proud of) ever gonna clean that up someday?" No concept of how hard it was to choose which bushes to leave and which ones to mow, how hard it was to avoid backing over the saplings that I wanted to keep. Or maybe that I cleared the area just to make the far bushes (the "trash") visible beyond a grassy clearing.

I do understand they are tying to help me to make my place look nicer. But they don't / can't see the difference I CREATED, and that's what I was trying to impart to them (an impossibility).

I suspect it's fairly common, (for those not using their tractor to make a living) to tractor on without regards to the hour-meter. Not much productivity in that equation, it's all in your own satisfaction.

Back to idling, beyond the first 10 minutes warmup, only accidental idling for me.

 

[TomSeller]

For example when I clear the sticks and dead bushes and create a beautiful little green meadow area, I marvel at it every spring, each time I pass by. But upon mention to any viewer (the HUGE burnpiles, the sweat, the backbreaking work fresh in my mind) all I ever get is, "Your place looks so nice. You gonna get that trashy stuff wayyyyyy over there (looking thru and beyond my beautiful area I'm so proud of) ever gonna clean that up someday?" No concept of how hard it was to choose which bushes to leave and which ones to mow, how hard it was to avoid backing over the saplings that I wanted to keep. Or maybe that I cleared the area just to make the far bushes (the "trash") visible beyond a grassy clearing.
.

I sure know how you feel, I have had the same thing happen many times. I shrug it off figuring these people must think that you simply drive your tractor through the area and it cleans up like mowing a lawn or something. Truth is it takes a lot of time to clear an area, a lot of sweat and physical work in spite of having a tractor. Those shrubs don't pile and burn themselves. The trees don't cut themselves for firewood and burn their branches. The chainsaws don't sharpen themselves. Those stumps don't dig their roots out and put themselves on the burn pile. Those countless burn piles don't light themselves when the wood is green and wet. That land does not level itself out, the grass seed does not seed itself. The diesel and seed is not free. I just finished seeding a 4 acre area that has taken me nearly every weekend since October to get ready for pasture. The area is highly visible to the county road (wealthy community lives past me) and I am already getting requests from people asking when they can start picnicking there. I just ask them if they can run faster than my bull.

And I did all of that with only idling while I got off the tractors to do some hand work and then get back on.

 

[Gary Fowler]

This is true on speed/hour meters driven by a cable such as your B7610 but not true on electronically controlled speed/hour meters such as my M7040

My tractor does not have a cable but uses a sensor off the engine to count revolutions. It is still programmed to only run the hours based on PTO speed which is 2200 rpm. Just because it is electronic is no reason to assume that it is just a clock that runs when you turn on the key. I have a lawnmower that does that, but not one of my tractors that I have ever owned or driven registered time of day hours. All run on PTO rated speed = hours on the meter. That said, some of the smaller CUT's may not have an hour meter based of tachometer, just saying I have never seen one that wasn't. If it has a tach, there is no reason not to register the engine hours in PTO speed equivalent. That is the only way to assure that the wear on the engine is truly = to number of rotations. It is certainly not the same wear on an engine running for an hour at 1200 rpm as one running 2800 on earth time.

 

[TomSeller]

My tractor does not have a cable but uses a sensor off the engine to count revolutions. It is still programmed to only run the hours based on PTO speed which is 2200 rpm. Just because it is electronic is no reason to assume that it is just a clock that runs when you turn on the key. I have a lawnmower that does that, but not one of my tractors that I have ever owned or driven registered time of day hours. All run on PTO rated speed = hours on the meter. That said, some of the smaller CUT's may not have an hour meter based of tachometer, just saying I have never seen one that wasn't. If it has a tach, there is no reason not to register the engine hours in PTO speed equivalent. That is the only way to assure that the wear on the engine is truly = to number of rotations. It is certainly not the same wear on an engine running for an hour at 1200 rpm as one running 2800 on earth time.

It seems like the newer tractors would store both the actual hours the engine was running, plus the revolutions (in 100Ks or something), plus the starts, plus average RPMs. That would be truly valuable information.

 

[def]

Idling a diesel engine does the following;
1- Oil pressure falls reducing oil cooling and engine lubrication.
2- Soots the engine oil.
3- EGR engines will build up carbon.
4- Increases power train wear due to speed changes (combustion pulses).
5- Creates more DPF load.
6- Shears engine oil.
7- Quickly purges the turbocharger and engine combustion area of excess heat.
8- Wastes fuel.

Idling a gasoline engine does the following;
1- Increases carbon buildup.
2- Creates engine hot spots.
3- Reduces engine lubrication and cooling.
4- Increases power train wear due to speed changes (combustion pulses).
5- Shears the engine oil.
6- Wastes fuel.

 

[Tx Jim]

My tractor does not have a cable but uses a sensor off the engine to count revolutions. It is still programmed to only run the hours based on PTO speed which is 2200 rpm. Just because it is electronic is no reason to assume that it is just a clock that runs when you turn on the key. All run on PTO rated speed = hours on the meter. That said, some of the smaller CUT's may not have an hour meter based of tachometer, just saying I have never seen one that wasn't. If it has a tach, there is no reason not to register the engine hours in PTO speed equivalent.

Are you sure the electronic speed hour meter only registers correct time(hours) @ engine pto speeds? The crankshaft sensor registers engine rpm's for tachometer but hour meter may not be affected by that sensor. I will investigate and find the answer.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Are you sure the electronic speed hour meter only registers correct time(hours) @ engine pto speeds? The crankshaft sensor registers engine rpm's for tachometer but hour meter may not be affected by that sensor. I will investigate and find the answer.

That is easy enough to do. Next time you are warming up your tractor, set the rpm at exactly 1/2 of the rated pto rpm and let it run for 12 minutes(.2 hours). The hour meter should register .1 hours. For this short duration you would have to verify that the tenths on the meter had just clicked over to what ever number is showing. The last time I used my LS was moving a bunch of concrete slabs and dragging them a couple hundred feet to a spoil pile. I worked the tractor over 6 hours most of the time at 1200 rpm and only put 2 hours on the meter. The tractor was running the full time.

Yes I am sure mine registers hours at PTO speed just like every other tractor I have ever operated. That is the way they are set, similar to a speedometer that registers miles by measuring the transmission rotations. They have to be calibrated to the size tires running on the vehicle.

The hour meter is calibrated to measure hours at a certain speed of the engine which varies by tractor due to the different engine speeds that produce the 540 PTO speed. For example, my Kubota B26 is 2500 rpm, my LS P7010 is 2200. Some of the older diesel engine wouldn't rev past 1800 rpm and the 540 was somewhat less than that so each engine is slightly different.

PTO speed may be set at the speed the engines reach maximum torque or HP but I am just guessing on that.

 

[Tx Jim]

That is easy enough to do. Next time you are warming up your tractor, set the rpm at exactly 1/2 of the rated pto rpm and let it run for 12 minutes(.2 hours). .

I was thinking by researching tech manual in lieu of wasting diesel since I live in Texas and my tractors don't normally require an extended warm up time. Next time I unload an 18 wheeler load of hay I'll monitor the hour meter more closely.

 

[MHarryE]

I have checked my Kubota L5740 and Cat 301.8 which together moving material. The Kubota idles while I fill my dump trailer with the 301.8. The 301.8 idles while the L5740 is hauling the load. Both register the same number of hours used at the end of the day - the time from start up until shut down. The Cat I can figure out from the wiring diagram - it has an oil pressure switch set to close at 5 psi so the hour meter registers hours when the key switch is on and the engine oil pressure is over 5 psi. The Kubota I have no idea. The WSM says the Electronic Instrument Panel receives inputs from multiple sensors and switches, has multiple ECU's that output to the display. It doesn't say what triggers engine hours but it does not have an oil pressure switch like the Cat; however, it registers an hour running at high idle same as an hour running at low idle. Others, I can't say. Our JD 7720, 6230, and NH TS115A all display hours, not hours at PTO rpm, verified by measuring idle time. Same thing with our International combine. Older tractors we had did registers hours at PTO rpm, but all of them were cable tachs.

 

[MHarryE]

Found an item on a trucker's forum - what is the longest you have let your engine idle. Many said no more than 10 minutes. Longest one I saw was 2 years, a person who bought a used diesel pickup, found it hard to start, so just let it run until he traded it off 2 years later. Many in northern climes said they let theirs run all winter, cheaper to use their sleeper and pay the fuel bill than get a hotel room. Even guys who have gone out to ND to get oil field jobs, can't find housing, so live in their truck and never shut it down all winter. Lots of questions asked about cylinder wash down, carbon buildup, etc. Everyone had heard about it, nobody had experienced a problem.

If you buy your tractors new you will always know how it was used. If you buy used -- will you know?