Any Tractor Guys Into Sports Cars Too?

[N80]

It's a very expensive hobby. There is no return on the investment at your level.

As one instructor told me, "nothing you do with this car on the track is going to improve its value."

You were in second gear when you lost it?

Third. Rarely get into second. But third pulls hard and even on a dry track I can easily induce oversteer in third.

It looked to me like you saw the straight and you started to put your foot in it when you were at the fat part of the performance curve.

Yep. And if I didn't brush the curb then it was simply a matter of too much gas at the wrong time. I promise you I really didn't put my foot in it by any stretch. But how ever much it was, it was too much.

Your tires were cold the track was wet.

I'd been out there for at least four laps, probably five. But at low speeds, so yes, they might have still been a bit cold. Certainly not hot. The RS-3s are not true track tires but they do need some heat.

 

[N80]

It's not cheap. Compared to, say, playing horse shoes, there will probably be a higher proportion of high-income folks at the track. But there are those who run in old rusty Miatas (or the like) with a moderate budget.

It is crazy expensive.

But you are right, it can be done for "less". I know a lot of guys who run old Miatas, Civics and even Thunder Roadsters that use cheap little pads that they don't wear out too much and are easy on tires. They camp at the track. They bring their own food. And with NASA you can work two weekends and drive the next for free. A lot of guys instruct or teach in the classroom which pays for their track time. There are plenty of wealthy folks at NASA events, but there are lots of folks pinching every penny to be there.....and having just as much fun.

Edit: Expensive and addicting. I love it. Enough to sell one of my deer rifles to get my car going again so I can get back out there!

 

[RobertBrown]

Enough to sell one of my deer rifles to get my car going again so I can get back out there!

OK..... now your getting confused....did you bang your head when you hit the tires?

 

[ultrarunner]

Stopped by to see my uncle this evening...

After 35 years of ownership he decided to sell his AC Cobra...

Always held out a chance we could work out a deal... the way prices have gone... could buy a couple of nice homes for the same money.

When I was in high school he sold a big block AC Cobra for 20k... thought how could anyone afford to pay that kind of money?

If I only knew then what I know now...

I had some nice muscle cars back in the day and the insurance was a killer and letting them go helped me pay for school.

The nicest was a 100% stock 1968 factory Z28 Camaro... often wonder where that car is today.

 

[dfkrug]

I'll definitely be getting back on the track. Its like a disease.

You can just call it a hobby, George. Unless you become so obsessed that it negatively
affects the rest of your life.

Anyway, so sorry to hear about your mishap at the track. I am glad it did not scare
you into never going back. Or going with a trailer-carried track-only beater. Nothing
wrong with the latter approach, but it's not the same.

After my 308 got hit by a 328 at Laguna Seca, I went back for a track day, but that
was my last time. Nowadays I fantasize about a track-only machine, but I have always
wanted a 125cc shifter kart. I had better do it soon, before I get too old.

A friend recently wrecked his Lotus Exige s/c at the same track, and he is almost 70,
so I should be inspired.

 

[dfkrug]

I like it when the track is wet. You can learn finer nuances of car control at a lower speed.

N80, of course it's difficult to draw conclusions from a video alone. But I noticed your hands were very smooth all the while prior to the spin. This implies to me that you weren't having to make corrections and thus weren't driving near the limit of traction. So when you did find a limit it was a surprise.

Especially when it's wet, I like to almost constantly (at least near and in turns) make control inputs that will induce slip and then recover. This happens very fast in little repetitive spurts. If you're near the limit, these inputs won't have to be large ones.

You may have ridden with an instructor or someone else that you and your track friends refer to as 'handsy.' This is what he is doing. I know, I know, they preach that you should be smooth. They drill it into your head. But what you should realize once you're past an intermediate level is that 'smooth' applies to the path of the car, and that your inputs should be whatever is required to make that happen. Don't tell green students this yet.

So anyway, by constantly experimenting with the controls, by forcing a tiny bit of slip and recovery, you always know how far away a surprise would be. You take the surprise out of it. Of course that's within reason allowed by predictable conditions.

The first time you try this, do it in a slow, wet carousel turn that has clear runoff area. You'll notice this gives you conditions similar to a skid pad. Once you reach that steady state condition around the turn, try a quick but small tightening of the wheel followed immediately by a quick counter steer. If you were near the limit and you get it right, the tail should have stepped out for just a fraction of a second. Unless it just under steered.

Feel this out and get used to it. Also do the same thing with throttle control and throttle combined with steering. Eventually you can do it while trail braking into a turn.

Now slippind and recovering takes a little riin through a turn. Fast guys will train themselves with turn out points a couple feet inside the edge to aim for, and that way they've got a couple feet of wiggle room to squirm as they lay the power down.

Very well-stated, XTN.

I agree, the lower traction situation allows you to do this at lower speeds. In the old days, I would try to
do this on snow and ice, and in PU trucks, on dirt. You can also drift around and explore transitions in
a relatively safe manner with little tire wear.

 

[dfkrug]

I have never been in a Miata but if the front console goes all the way to the dash then likely
there is not enough space for my leg as I tend to need a little space there although for the last couple years I tilt the
scales at about 215-220..

My brother has a 2010 Miata 6sp with retractable HT, and he is 6' 2". I have driven this car, and I really like it,
tho it is nothing like the 1st gen Miata I had years ago. It is much bigger and heavier, but with much more power.

My MR2 Spyder, OTOH, is a tight fit for anyone, and I am only 5'6". Not for big guys/gals. When I replace
it, I will likely go for the new Miata, but with a rag top to save weight.

 

[xtn]

Very well-stated, XTN.

I agree, the lower traction situation allows you to do this at lower speeds. In the old days, I would try to
do this on snow and ice, and in PU trucks, on dirt. You can also drift around and explore transitions in
a relatively safe manner with little tire wear.

Thanks. You're right, long before I ever discovered sporty cars and road courses, I learned the basics on backwoods dirt and gravel roads in dads old pickup truck, or in an empty, iced over parking lot in my moms station wagon.

Of course that's just the beginnings. While the basic truths hold up anywhere, the dynamic intricacies of running tarmac at high speed requires a much finer resolution of sensation versus correction. It's also a bit different in every car. Even the other Exiges I've driven all feel slightly different at speed, owing to different tires or alignment settings or spring rates or damper settings, etc.

The fastest guys can hop in just about anything and go pretty fast, owing to wide experience in many different cars. They've built up a repertoire of what I call 'muscle memory profiles' that they can draw from.

 

[Brake Weight]

Here's my hopped up snail grocery getter. Big turbo, big injectors, big high pressure fuel pump, big brakes, better clutch, water/methanol injection (dropped IATs from mid 50s to mid 20s Celsius, highly recommend for any forced induction), and loads of smiles from my three kids.

 

[N80]

Nice car, but why is someone from southern Mississippi quoting temps in Celsius?

It is funny how this thread keeps popping up.

Anyway, I've done two track days since my wreck and things are back on track.....pun intended. The first track day (at my home track) was probably the most helpful. Signed up for a weekday event that was run by track management. There were supposed to be three run groups running and no motorcycles, one instructed group, our solo group and one super solo group. There was only one guy running in the super solo group so he just joined our solo run group and we all doubled our track time. There were maybe 8 of us total on a 2.5 mile track. We were scheduled for six 45 minute sessions and they all went longer than that so I got over 4.5 hours of track time in one day. It was right after my wreck, it was my first time on a dry track with my new track tires and there were hours of clear track time. Probably my most valuable track time to date. Got my confidence back an lower my best track time on that track by almost 2 seconds....the tires mostly.

The next track weekend I ran with NASA in the DE3 group (passing anywhere with a point by) but almost every session included DE4 (pass anywhere with no point by required). There were also a lot of instructors out there and even DE3 cars can pass them without a point by. There were over thirty cars on track. Some screaming fast, some not so fast. Traffic was heavy and I did a lot of passing and being passed in the corners. No problems and loved every minute of it.

So, I'm back in deep. Still not ready to drop more cash on modifications. I do have a race seat now (someone gave it to me) and it makes a huge difference but I'm using it with OEM seat belts.

I'll be running in DE4 for a while now. Not quite ready for time trials. Not enough experience to instruct yet. But even DE4 is serious and involves cars of all sorts. I will need to start thinking more about safety. I'll need a roll bar if I want real harnesses but a roll bar can make street use dangerous. I could get a harness bar which is fine on the street if you use your OEM seat belt but thought by many to be unsafe in a rollover. Some big decisions coming up but not quite ready to make it a track only car.

Anyway, just thought I'd give an update since I started this thread waaaay back a while.