Break In hours before synthetic oil changeover?

[orezok]

I believe that the break in period for modern engines is significantly different than just a decade or so ago. Both cylinders and rings are manufactured to a roundness of a few 10 thousandth of an inch and materials for rings has improved exponentially.

No need any more to "wear" the parts into a good fit.

Of course, there is always that one...

 

[jaotguy]

give it 10-25 hours on the break in dino oil .... check if it is "using" any oil .... a couple of hours after the level stabilizes, switch to synthetic .....

use it moderately hard during the break in ..... don't idle for long periods .......

yes ... those engines that come with synthetic have already been "run in" at the factory ( they didn't trust the consumer to do it right, so to avoid any problems , they do it ) .... a smart move on their part....


break in is not a myth ..... if done right, the engine will run a long time and never use oil

do it wrong and the motor will still run , at reduced capacity, using oil, blowing smoke , fouling plugs and turbos , excessive blow by ( causing run away in diesels ) ..... and very unhappy customers .

 

[tow653]

What about changing to synthetic at higher hours,say 400hrs. Okay or a no-no?

 

[ray66v]

If no specific breaking oil, and time period is specified by the manufacturer, it doesn't matter.

If you look at the lubricity ratings for today's mineral oil, and synthetic oil, you will see they are essentially the same. Your engine will not break in any differently with either one. That's why it doesn't matter when you switch, or if you switch back to dino again later.

The difference is under extreme temperatures, and longer intervals. If you can benefit from those advantages, you should use synthetic oil.

 

[jaotguy]

you can switch to synthetic at any time ... as long as the engine seals are not hardened or brittle .... and the engine is not too worn ( already blowing oil or has run 40 years on non detergent oils )

the synth oil HAS other additives ( anti wear agents ) and there are warnings NOT to use it as a break in oil from most engine makers ....

yes you can switch back and forth ...

yes you can add one to another ,,, but you will only be protected to the "lowest" type of oil you used ( dino )

 

[DeereMann]

Yeah, the newer engines have better materials & sealing - the breakin required is less stringent, yet most engine OEM's do specify some breakin sequences - typically no full power operation during the breakin period, and varying engine speed and load. This takes the rings & cylinder bore to near-final configuration.

In addition, this breakin period produces inordinately higher wear particles - by definition, the breakin period is just the final 'wet machining' of the wear parts. That is why they recommend changing oil & filter @ 50 hours - to dump the fine particles. Then you're good to go.

I work for a major engine OEM.

 

[ray66v]

the synth oil HAS other additives ( anti wear agents ) and there are warnings NOT to use it as a break in oil from most engine makers ....

Warnings? That was true 20 years ago. I haven't seen them lately. There may still be some old school guys out there, who have the say at their factory, that are still insisting on telling people to break in with regular mineral oil. Most engine makers are actually now shipping them with synthetic from the factory.

There is no reason for manufacturers to put anti-wear additives in their synthetic oil, and leave them out, when they make their mineral oil. Unless it's actual 1940's technology breaking oil, it's going to have them. Comparing the specification tests, you can see that they perform equally on lubricity, under normal temperatures.

Finally, if you check the major oil manufacturers web sites, the oil makers are saying that breaking with dino is a myth.

Synthetic Oil - Pennzoil
Havoline xpress Lube : Automotive Service and Maintenance in LAKEWOOD, CO
Motor Oil, Transmission Fluids & Synthetic Oil | Quaker State
Myths About Synthetics | About Synthetic Oils

 

[Gary Fowler]

Warnings? That was true 20 years ago. I haven't seen them lately. There may still be some old school guys out there, who have the say at their factory, that are still insisting on telling people to break in with regular mineral oil. Most engine makers are actually now shipping them with synthetic from the factory.

There is no reason for manufacturers to put anti-wear additives in their synthetic oil, and leave them out, when they make their mineral oil. Unless it's actual 1940's technology breaking oil, it's going to have them. Comparing the specification tests, you can see that they perform equally on lubricity, under normal temperatures.

Finally, if you check the major oil manufacturers web sites, the oil makers are saying that breaking with dino is a myth.

Synthetic Oil - Pennzoil
Havoline xpress Lube : Automotive Service and Maintenance in LAKEWOOD, CO
Motor Oil, Transmission Fluids & Synthetic Oil | Quaker State
Myths About Synthetics | About Synthetic Oils

The only warning that came with my Kawasaki powered ZTR is that using synthetic oil may increase oil usage. The dealer mechanic said to use only full synthetic oil although the manual doesn't address that as a requirement. I used Mobile 1 full synthetic in it for the first oil change at 8 hours. Next oil change is at 100 hours.
I put SHELL Rotella T6 in my LS at the 50 hour oil change. My manual said to fully load the engine on break in and vary the throttle response so that is what I did. It didn't use any oil during break-in and the oil was clear as new at 50 hours when I drained it, so I am sure it wasn't a high detergent oil and likely was a pure mineral oil. Upon changing to a HD diesel oil, the oil almost immediately turned black with carbon deposits as a diesel oil should.

 

[ray66v]

What is interesting to me is, years ago, I had a private tour of a Ford engine factory. When they fired up the brand new engines for the first time, they immediately ran them wide open, for an extended period of time, before shipping them to be installed in vehicles. Then, they told the owner of the new vehicle, in owners manual, not to run it too hard, and keep the speed below 55mph for the first 500 miles.

 

[jaotguy]

read them closely... the mfrs stated already "run in" their engines and are ready to use Synthetics... and /or have very close tolerances to begin with ... excellent quality control throughout .... something every company should strive for ....

those ford engines were run at specific RPM.... the specs were to weed out any weak engines or those with defects , as well as do the initial "run in" ....

companies have improved the "run in" procedure at most factories with varying load conditions , to do an almost perfect ring seating these days ... so all you have to do is turn the key and drive away ....

Rotella T6 , which is a great oil .... ( as any oil rated CD for diesels ) has agents in the oil to keep the particles suspended in the oil ... is the main reason why most CD oil turns black shortly after being put into a diesel ....

note : some diesels are very well sealed and broken in and there is very little blowby , so the oil stays clean for awhile ....


as far as "break in oil" or procedure for a new machine , follow the MANUAL .... if they have already done it for you , why do it again ?

if you have rebuilt it yourself , follow whatever your heart desires ....

I've got 40 years plus turning wrenches ... I follow the dino till stabilization then synthetic after that ( my personal preferences ) for super bikes , race car engines , regular cars / trucks and all other toys ....