Moving gravel near streams and rivers

[/pine]

I can post the statues if requested...but here in GA the law states that on "non-navigable" (the statues define the term liberally) streams, creeks, rivers etc. and you own both sides of said waterways etc. etc... you can treat the "land" that lies under the water like any other part of your land...( there are legal precedents that uphold this)...
...You can keep people from wading, fishing etc...

there are EPA limitations about "construction" equipment rather than agriculture equipment and the proximity they can be to waterways...

 

[orezok]

I can post the statues if requested...but here in GA the law states that on "non-navigable" (the statues define the term liberally) streams, creeks, rivers etc. and you own both sides of said waterways etc. etc... you can treat the "land" that lies under the water like any other part of your land...( there are legal precedents that uphold this)...
...You can keep people from wading, fishing etc...

there are EPA limitations about "construction" equipment rather than agriculture equipment and the proximity they can be to waterways...

That's probably true for GA law, but federal laws can trump that. Federal law defines that ANY blue line waterway shown on a USGS map is navigable waters of the US. That's a real joke out here in the desert as many are bone dry for 363 days a year and then have an inch or 2 on the other days.

I have personally dealt with this in my job as construction manager.

The last one was replacing an existing storm drain headwall that cost over $25,000 in permit fees and took a year to get.

 

[/pine]

That's probably true for GA law, but federal laws can trump that. Federal law defines that ANY blue line waterway shown on a USGS map is navigable waters of the US. That's a real joke out here in the desert as many are bone dry for 363 days a year and then have an inch or 2 on the other days.

I have personally dealt with this in my job as construction manager.

The last one was replacing an existing storm drain headwall that cost over $25,000 in permit fees and took a year to get.

check (google search) the lawsuits that have been brought up about rafters/canoes etc. on the "Chattooga" and "Chattahoochee" rivers and you will see that the land owner rights have held up in all associated courts...

 

[Komrade]

500$ per gravel load !!!??? A ten wheeler. ??? Is that washed 3/4 ??

Here, plain dirt is approx 80$ / truck
0 - 3/4 80$ / truck
Good washed net 3/4 150-200$ / truck
Good garden mix black earth : 200$ / truck

Note that a truck is a regular 10 wheeler.

I don't know about your state & country, but here gerting caught digging a creek or river bed is hughe trouble. Chepaer to get a load delivered,

I think the price of gravel has more to do with mileage than digging it out/processing. From what I understand, a nearest quarry is rather far.

 

[Komrade]

What I have personally experienced with my little creek, if I take out rock and gravel, I increase bank erosion. I stopped messing with the stone, and I stopped mowing near the creek banks, and my yard isn't shrinking as much as it was. I didn't log measurements or anything, it just seemed to make a difference.

I wouldn't want to touch the creek upstream. I would want to dig where the creek touches the river. That's an area that didn't have any gravel last year, but after a few big rains a lot of gravel was washed down the creek and deposited on the river bank. The river will wash it all down when it goes up high enough. It moves 100lb+ boulders w/o an issue.

I suspect that's an area that is also a "grey area", although after reading the following passage, I'd most likely be messing with "public land"

In West Virginia this public trust owned by the state is held by its Public Land Corporation (PLC), notes West Virginia lawyer Charles McElwee who has dealt with this subject extensively. The Public Land Corporation is a unit of the Division of Natural Resources and is vested by statute. (W.Va. Code,SS20-1a-1). Today there are approximately 9,000 recognized rivers and streams in the state, totaling some 34,000 miles of riverbeds and streambeds. This adds up to more than 100,000 surface acres of rivers and streams in the state.

The next question would appear to be, 'What does navigable, mean?'. As with many legal terms navigable means something specific, not what one would think of in common, everyday terms. Without going into a long definition, the courts have determined that the use or potential for use by almost any type of watercraft is sufficient to determine this type of navigability, says NOR. And for the record the Cacapon River has been defined as navigable by the state legislature.

Another concern might be, How does one determine the ordinary high water mark? å…¸he ordinary high water mark is the highest that the water gets in a average yearå‚*ut not the highest it gets during extreme flooding, says NOR. Wherever the land along the river is fairly flat, the ordinary high water mark can be quite some distance from the edge of the water, when the river is at medium levels. This means that there can be plenty of room for picnics, camping, walking and other activities. The Courts have ruled that any and all nondestructive activities on this land are legally protected.

Reference:
Public Ownership of the Rivers in West Virginia (Abby Chapple)

 

[oosik]

Here in, WA state, if you operate any equipment within the "designated water course" you might as well bend over and kiss your ***** good by. Federal & state enforcement against activities within "their" water course is swift, non-forgiving and can result in large fines &/or many years in grey bar city. Strangely, a contractor for the Highway Dept found this out a couple years ago. The Highway Dept had not secured the necessary permits - if they would have even been issued - but the contractor paid the price.

 

[Citydude]

Landowner rights pertain to trespassing. A landowner doesn't have rights to alter a state waterway without permits.

 

[oldpilgrim]

Quote Originally Posted by Fi-Q View Post
500$ per gravel load !!!??? A ten wheeler. ??? Is that washed 3/4 ??

Here, plain dirt is approx 80$ / truck
0 - 3/4 80$ / truck
Good washed net 3/4 150-200$ / truck
Good garden mix black earth : 200$ / truck

Note that a truck is a regular 10 wheeler.

the last 10 wheeler of just plain gravel that I got was about 10 years ago and cost over $400 for the load....about a 5 mile haul.

I think it depends on where you are as to what you'll have to pay.

 

[orezok]

check (google search) the lawsuits that have been brought up about rafters/canoes etc. on the "Chattooga" and "Chattahoochee" rivers and you will see that the land owner rights have held up in all associated courts...

This post is not about trespass but alteration to waterway. It's 2 totally different issues.

 

[RaydaKub]

My f-i-l was head of a building committee for their church about 15 years ago in Santa Barbara, CA. There was a creek bed behind the church that was dry (as noted above) 363 days a year. But it was considered habitat for the (something)-trout. They had to step very carefully around that law. I don't recall the outcome for this specifically, the church was built, but it may have been moved a few feet from the original plan because of this. I know they had to plant some kind of grass along the bank that was usually considered a weed and the state of CA would normally spray, but the requirements were to return it to its natural state. Totally absurd.

Not related to the creek, there was also a requirement that if you took out any trees, you had to replace each one with 10 more. It was very difficult to get them to understand that they had too many to begin with and were trying to thin them out so they could build.

Good luck with your gravel and BE CAREFUL.