GM, Dodge and Ford engine sizing in the past

[deerefan]

I am too young to have first hand experience growing up with these cars, but being a car nut and working at a classic car dealer for a few years in my teens, I have had the opportunity to drive some rare muscle. The 426 Hemi I drove was in a Challenger. Crazy power. Would kill the skinny little tires on it. The most violent was a 69 Vette-427/435hp tri-power (3x2bl carbs). (way more than that, just its rating) with a 4spd. Violent, loud and hot, especially around the side pipes. Lastly, I drove a 1970 Chevelle SS 454/450hp. Real tourque, again would kill the skinny factory tires. Never owned any of them but got the pleasure to drive and work on them. I currently own a 1970 Chevelle Malibu and a 1970 Corvette 350/350hp 4spd. The Vette is #s matching, pretty quick. The Chevelle is a work in progress, currently a small block about 300hp.

 

[AGRIMAN]

Being a Ford man, I'm acquainted with 289, 292, 302, 351W, 351C, 351M, 428, 429 and the 460. In one way or another I have built hot street to all out racing engines from everyone but a 428 (never had the chance yet), but today (at least for us) you need to be in 632+ CID range which means all aftermarket blocks.

I still have my 557 which is based on 460 product block, but that's after some slight modifications.

By the way, those small blocks you see running around the race tracks today could just be 500 cid.

 

[dodge man]

In about 1972 they switched from gross horsepower to net horsepower. Gross horsepower was with no exhaust, no water pump, no altenator, nothing but the bare engine on a dyno. Net horsepower was a more realistic number with all accessories installed. Net showed a loss of 10 to 15% less. All cars today are net horsepower, so its been that way for a long time.

Today its really up to the automaker to list the power rating, they may be over rated or under rated. For example, the engine in the Hellcat is rated at 707 horsepower. It would be easy to say its over rated, they just wanted to say its over 700 but the truth is they have strapped a few on the dyno and they are under rated. The 707 hp was kind of an arbitrary number they made up.

I've seen interviews with people that ran the dynos in the 60's and 70's. The one I remember the most was someone that ran the dyno for the 440 magnums in the old Mopars. He said the numbers were honest but they would spin the distributor to vary the timing when the engine was doing a pull to get the best numbers, not something you can do going down the road.

There was a famous road test in where a Pontaic GTO took on a Ferrari GTO. The Pontiac came out on top. It should have been running a 389 tri power. Instead, they found out later, it was running a 429 Super Duty that was bordering on a pure race setup. Sometimes they sent the car mags a ringer. I tend to think the numbers are a lot more realistic today although some magazines only publish the best times when the run the cars down the 1/4 mile. Some people are amazed they can't run the times the mags publish at their local drag strip.

 

[Patches]

Being a Ford man, I'm acquainted with 289, 292, 302, 351W, 351C, 351M, 428, 429 and the 460. In one way or another I have built hot street to all out racing engines from everyone but a 428 (never had the chance yet), but today (at least for us) you need to be in 632+ CID range which means all aftermarket blocks.

I still have my 557 which is based on 460 product block, but that's after some slight modifications.

By the way, those small blocks you see running around the race tracks today could just be 500 cid.

Jeez, you forgot 239(first overhead valve "Y" block V8, 1954) grew into 272, 292, 312; then the FE block( my favorite) 352, 390, 406, 410(Mercury), 427, etc. Owned them all except the 410 and up. The '61 390 was a tri-power as was the '62 406, both factory stock

 

[tcartwri]

The best sounding V-8 is still the Flathead Ford.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The 5.3L /327 direct injection engine makes any old 350,400 or 454 a dog by comparison . 355HP and 383lb ft torque. Always starts, idles smooth, flat torque curve and mileage that will get you called prone to exaggeration .No vapour lock, no flooding, no fan belts jumping off. No points , no heat riser and no sticking choke. Runs 300,000 miles with just two set of spark plug changes,. Regular oil changes and air filter changes. Good old days, no they were not the good old days.
6.2L if you want 420HP and 460lb ft of torque. Cheaper fuel than diesel. No glow plugs, no turbo, no waste gate, no cooled EGR, no particulate filter and no urea injection. No fuel jelling and just one starting battery.

So true. My grandmother could chat and set point ms because you had to. It was a big deal if you had 100,000 miles but today I wouldn't think twice of those miles. We have come a long way.

Chris

 

[Patches]

Yeah, I had one of them, 1953; not my favorite as a friend used to borrow his dad's straight 8 Buick and dust me; Diamondpilot got between us

 

[nova3930]

So true. My grandmother could chat and set point ms because you had to. It was a big deal if you had 100,000 miles but today I wouldn't think twice of those miles. We have come a long way.

Chris

I've had this discussion with my grandfather. Stuff used to be easier to fix which was a good thing because it needed repairing 5X as often.

I'm 32 years old, been driving since 15, a big chunk of that on beaters with north of 200k on the clock and have never been stranded due to failures my gramps said used to be relatively common, like ignition issues, carb problems, jumped/broken belts, etc etc etc. In his words, you had to be able to fix a set of points on the side of the highway because if you couldn't you were just stuck....

 

[dodge man]

I've had three cars with points. Two of those I converted to electronic. Points suck. The problem is as the wear it also changes your timing. That was one problem with the 426 street hemi. It had a dual point distributor, 2 4 barrel carbs, and a solid lifter cam. To keep it running sharp all that stuff had to be kept in tune. I still have a dwell meter and a timing light in my tool box, haven't used them in years.

 

[Ken]

The 4 barrel carb. was good until it started to over flow crossing a railroad track or bump in road and poured gas over the engine.
Then driving got interesting. stop raise hood and use fire fighting methods to put out fire road side gravel and sand or snow what ever could grab.
Not really liking the metric method of sizing engines. What ever used to keep the pistons flying up and back down with fuel injectors keep the fuel inside the container.


Sounds like a Holley to me :laughing:

Could be it was had a window to see how high the fuel was over the float and running out the side of carb.
carried a set of vise grips pliers to choke the fuel off The 1 ton truck unnerved drivers with its strange problems.
dirt all over engine and under hood was burned black and loss of paint.
Anyone remember the GMC V,6 trucks of early 60's the first the driver noticed there was a problem was a hood turning brown and smoke rolling out everywhere.
ken