Mahindra 2015 answer to EPA TierIV regulations...

[Btown]

$1000 for a re-manufactured DPF from VW not including the install. Also must replace the EGR filter. You go buy one and tell us after 150,000 miles how you like it. And when the Urea pump fails you can spend almost another grand to replace that. Tier 4 lovers can have at it as far as I'm concerned. I work on them for a living, do you see me owning one? NOPE! Last weekend one of the state plow trucks sat on the side of the road 45 minutes waiting for his DPF to burnoff, another accident waiting to happen and more failed EPA BULLcrap. By the way your 13 Powerstroke urea pump costs $700 to replace and are failing at just over 60k miles, ask any Ford technician. I hope you bought the $5,000 dollar ford customer care contract because you will need it. Regards, Fred

Why are they sitting on the side of the road during a regen? I believe regents will take a lot longer at idle then at a higher RPM. Never once had to stop for a regen with my VW Jetta or Passat. Hey I'm not a fan of expensive parts but I would rather be smelling the exhaust of my 2013 Passat TDI than my 2001 Powerstroke. The sky is not falling with this newer technology. Hey it's not cheap fixing hybrids either.

 

[herringchoker]

Why are they sitting on the side of the road during a regen? I believe regents will take a lot longer at idle then at a higher RPM. Never once had to stop for a regen with my VW Jetta or Passat. Hey I'm not a fan of expensive parts but I would rather be smelling the exhaust of my 2013 Passat TDI than my 2001 Powerstroke. The sky is not falling with this newer technology. Hey it's not cheap fixing hybrids either.

The last truck I drove before I retired was a brand new 2008 Western Star with DPF on a Mercedes-Benz do Brazil engine and DDEC IV (Detroit Diesel) controls. The company had eight of them, two at our location. They had many problems with emissions sensors and controls.
When the REGEN light came on on the dash, I had 1 engine hour to stop, apply the brakes and push the button to do an active regen, or else the engine would begin to de-rate in stages until it shut off. It would not regen unless the parking brakes were applied. A regen took about 40 -45 minutes with the engine revved at 1500 RPM.
This was on a ready-mix concrete truck which did a lot of idling due to the nature of the work. Typically, I had to regen every 35 engine hours (not clock hours) except if I happened to get some out-of-town hauls whiich would stretch the time between regens to as much as 200 engine hours. I did discover that I could interrupt an active regen and complete it later (within the 1 hour before de-rating started), so (for example) I could activate it while washing the drum and chutes after a pour and then proceed to the nearest coffee shop to finish it.

 

[cford36]

The last truck I drove before I retired was a brand new 2008 Western Star with DPF on a Mercedes-Benz do Brazil engine and DDEC IV (Detroit Diesel) controls. The company had eight of them, two at our location. They had many problems with emissions sensors and controls.
When the REGEN light came on on the dash, I had 1 engine hour to stop, apply the brakes and push the button to do an active regen, or else the engine would begin to de-rate in stages until it shut off. It would not regen unless the parking brakes were applied. A regen took about 40 -45 minutes with the engine revved at 1500 RPM.
This was on a ready-mix concrete truck which did a lot of idling due to the nature of the work. Typically, I had to regen every 35 engine hours (not clock hours) except if I happened to get some out-of-town hauls whiich would stretch the time between regens to as much as 200 engine hours. I did discover that I could interrupt an active regen and complete it later (within the 1 hour before de-rating started), so (for example) I could activate it while washing the drum and chutes after a pour and then proceed to the nearest coffee shop to finish it.

Seems like a stupid way to do it. My 2011 Ford 6.7 would go into regen when needed, there was no button to force a regen. In fact you had to drive. If you put it in park it stopped the regen. The engine would not generate enough heat at idle.High heat is needed for the regen so the harder you worked the truck the faster the regens and the less often they occurred. Idling a lot caused the most frequent regens, but again they were passive and basically un-noticable unless you were looking at your mpg. From what I have read this seems to be like the systems the tractors have, other than the fact you can force a regen also. (nice feature. seemed like the truck would always regen when I was going on a 5 minute trip.) The only time you have to park is if the filter gets excessively plugged. Someone that has one want to confirm this?

I look at it this way.....its not going away, this is only the beginning. Wouldn't be surprised if you see urea used down the road also. Most of the issues with the trucks were sensor problems. Overall the issues were way overblown and looking at percentages were very small considering the number out there. (yes, sucks to be the one with the problem, but anything mechanical there will be some issues somewhere) But like anything the few loudest people can make even a small issue seem huge.

If you are really against this you better start looking for a tractor before all the tier 3 are gone.

 

[drizler]

I did my damnedest to find a tier 3 but everybody beat me to it. Oh well. The regen on my Massey / Mitsubishi just does it's thing and stops when it finishes. It's done it twice and there seems like nothing but a bit of a hot smell. Besides that you just do what you do with it. The book said something about not shutting it off unless you had to but it's hard to think of it and I shut it off . Next time it:confused3: just picked up where it left off till the regen light went out :confused3: I wouldn't brag about the stuff but in 100 hours it hasn't managed to PO me yet except for the cat converter being stuck on the side so they moved the remotes out farther to get hooked on. I guess it's just something most of us will have to learn to live with. It's the future and it sure is nicer to operate than my TO 20.

 

[hutchman]

The DPF on the new VW's state 120,000 miles to be serviced. Numerous people are over that with acceptable ash loads. The only thing that would need to be done is remove the ash. VW did not set up their DPF's to have the ash removed. Usually the ones with problems are the vehicles that had a problem that was not addressed.

I may be out of date but the clean diesel vdubs I'm familiar with have dpf with either an extra glow plug in the exhaust and/or urea injection. Typically the lighter Jetta doesn't use urea while the heavier Passat does. They usually do burns after you park ... and make everyone think you're an idiot for leaving your car running. Ah, excuse me, sir, you left your car running.

Neither of my TDI's have DPF's but my co-workers do ... and we get people doing that when we go out to lunch.

 

[hutchman]

Yup sure, that's why all these 09 up VW TDIs are coming in with bad DPFs. Junk pure and simple.

Several thousand hours my rear end, Fred

Yup, part of it is vdubs are designed to run on 52 Cetane file and all we have is rot gut 40. Europe I'd rape seed oil based too ... better quality than ours. Vdubs in US have been having high pressure fuel pumps implode due to the awesome quality of our diesel.

I will run my pre-2007 vdubs til the wheels fall off to avoid having to deal with these crazy setups ... piezoelectric injectors that inject 5-6 times per stroke etc.

 

[hutchman]

Aggressive egr allows a bunch of soot back into the intake. I'd take a dpf/def equipped tractor over that anyday. The soot accumulates and can cause problems. I did however rush to secure a tier II deere for my personal tractor. I have a '13 powerstroke and haven't had any problems what so ever out of is emmissions system.

Brett

And it is worse if a turbo is invloved ... usually a oil line goes to the turbo and those seals leak oil which adds to the oil already in the intake from the crank case vent and when this moist oil vapor mixes with soot from an EGR you get clogged up intakes that are really fun to clean. Ask me how I know.

 

[cford36]

Yup, part of it is vdubs are designed to run on 52 Cetane file and all we have is rot gut 40. Europe I'd rape seed oil based too ... better quality than ours. Vdubs in US have been having high pressure fuel pumps implode due to the awesome quality of our diesel.

I will run my pre-2007 vdubs til the wheels fall off to avoid having to deal with these crazy setups ... piezoelectric injectors that inject 5-6 times per stroke etc.

The diesel fuel quality in the U.S. us a whole issue in itself. My 6.7 high pressure fuel pump ran at 30,000psi using the fuel as lubrication. Cetane levels are poor and so is the lubrication in our diesel. (Poor scar) The pumps did not like contaminates, especially water, that's when they tended to disintegrate.

 

[john_bud]

I'm glad that tractor engines can last 3-10,000 hours with average to excellent care before rebuild. That means, I'll be gone before needing to bother with this .

 

[hutchman]

Hi all,
Upon reading litterature on Mahindra tractors, I came across their buletin: mCRD.
Once decifered, I beleive it means mutlty port comon rail direct diesel fuel injection. And in conbination with a clean EGR system, and a catalytic converter they call Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC), Mahindra seems to be well positioned to respond in a very inteligent manner to those much controversial environment laws forced upon us by the governing body that we all refer to as the EPA.

Is this not so new technology put up in this new package, the best Tractor Owner answer one can get about this hole mess of complying to the Tier IV restrictions??
To my own eyes, it looks to be the best system put in place by any manufacturer up to date. As per my understanding, you get better fuel "mileage", no DPF filter to fill our dumps with, no down time because of the regen mode so often required, no additional fuel and parts cost and husling, etc... And I am sure these engines will be less noisy, with less vibration, and of course less pollution in the end.

Here are some links:
Introducing our Tier IV "mCRD Technology" | Mahindra
What Is a Diesel Oxidation Catalyst? - Nett Technologies

What do you all think?

That mCRD sounds like a mini version of what the modern clean diesels do. So basically now your tractor has an ECU (computer) and MAF (mass airflow sensor) and most of the other required sensors modern diesel cars have and a high pressure fuel pump.

No thanks, I like my tractors to be simple so I can work on it etc. I know big car dealerships that don't even have properly trained/certified diesel mechanics to work on cars and they have much higher volumes than a tractor dealer .... a small tractor shop isn't going to have a trained/certified diesel mechanic either more than likely and this mCRD engine is approaching the complexity where one is required ... you'll have to have OBD2 type test equipment and/or computer equipment to trouble shoot it.

I'm sure in a few years the bugs will all be worked out but I'm not going to pay big Tier IV bucks to be a beta tester.