The reality of aluminum body panels.

[jejeosborne]

Actually you have not been reading the posts of what you deem is "naysayers" then because my position (concerning weight gains Ford claims)has been that GM (and Ram) had already engineered a lighter than equivalent optioned Ford , so Ford was only catching up and had only actually achieved a 90 lb advantage, and that when GM eventually goes to Aluminum they will be capable to ,have a MUCH lighter truck than Ford. As someone who drives snow and salt drenched roads for 5 months a year my decision on less rust resistant vehicles is a priority........(my wife had a plastic bodied Saturn for a decade).....but I am realisitc about body work costs and thanks to Roadhunter, and his Forbes article confirmation, see my thinking in regard to those costs are correct. I look forward to the day that GM or Ram joins the manufacturers like Landrover that have been using aluminum for decades , and hope Ford eventully gets it right, but their exaggerations need to be tempered with both sides of the debate and that is what this thread did.....unfortunately some of the Ford fans take these debates personal.........I guess if your close minded that will happen.

The current Ram weighs about 300-400 lbs more than the 2015 F150 and has the lowest GVWR so Ford didn't have much "catching up" to do with them. GM does have a light truck for being made of steel. I question why they aren't quicker with such a great HP/weight ratio especially with the 6.2 liter monster motor. I too will be interested in how much the GM will improve when it joins Landover and Ford. Ford learned a lot about aluminum vehicles when they owned Land Rover for 8 years. If they have similar weight savings I bet they will have a combination of capability and MPG that will amazing.

What exactly did the Forbes article confirm for you? To me it showed a high repair bill to repair and aluminum panel. The big unanswered question remains....how much more does it cost vs the outgoing steel panel?

 

[aczlan]

Entertainingly, the 2001 Ram 1500 had higher payload ratings than the 2015 Ram 1500.
Compare http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2015/docs/ram/rammlup1500.pdf to 2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts

Aaron Z

 

[jejeosborne]

Entertainingly, the 2001 Ram 1500 had higher payload ratings than the 2015 Ram 1500.
Compare http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2015/docs/ram/rammlup1500.pdf to 2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts

Aaron Z

For a short period ending in 2012, Ram made a Tradesman HD 1500 which had more than 3000 lbs payload. It had 7 lug wheels and heavy running gear light the current F150. I believe it was the year they went to coil springs that ended it. I would own a Ram today if they still had that option.

 

[deerefan]

This is nothing new. GM is and will always be very conservative. They are in willing to take chances and just wait 2 generations to adopt what others are doing. Some think this is a smart business practice, maybe it is, but to me it's not!

They all will be using aluminum in 10 years.

Chris

I have noticed the same thing with GM. Very conservative. The only way I see it is beneficial is if the other manufacturers have a flop, GM won't go that route, essentially using them as their "test dummy". For instance, I owned a 2011 Silverado with the 5.3. They made an improvement to this engine (direct injection, etc) and still does not make the power the 5.7, that has been around for some time now, in my 2013 Tundra makes. I do like the new Colorado, but still do not think it will push the Tacoma out of the lead.

 

[Ford850]

This add is the current add they are running today. They had a similar one or the same one years ago?

Your link was You Tube from 2013. It was from the introduction of the 2014 models in 2013. They are probably still running those ads as the do still apply to the current model.

 

[fordmantpw]

What exactly did the Forbes article confirm for you? To me it showed a high repair bill to repair and aluminum panel. The big unanswered question remains....how much more does it cost vs the outgoing steel panel?

You mean, for it to actually mean something, we need to have something to compare it to? Not just 'what-ifs' and 'if we ignore this' and 'assume that' and 'this is the way it might be'? That's just crazy!

If aluminum was truly going to cost that much more than steel to replace, then insurance companies would have jacked up the rates. As seen by the link that I posted earlier, that is simply not the case. But hey, we don't want to mix any facts in with this conjecture, do we?

 

[fordmantpw]

Your link was You Tube from 2013. It was from the introduction of the 2014 models in 2013. They are probably still running those ads as the do still apply to the current model.

I saw that it was posted in '13 as well, but the headline clearly said: "Incredible Thinking in the 2015 GMC Sierra | Submarine"

So, it appears that GMC has updated the YouTube link to show that it applies to the '15 as well (which it should since it is the same as the '14).

 

[jejeosborne]

Your link was You Tube from 2013. It was from the introduction of the 2014 models in 2013. They are probably still running those ads as the do still apply to the current model.

That isn't the video that I posted. It should be titled " Incredible Thinking in the 2015 GMC Sierra | Submarine".

Is your end not playing the video with the submarine?

 

[jejeosborne]

I saw that it was posted in '13 as well, but the headline clearly said: "Incredible Thinking in the 2015 GMC Sierra | Submarine"

So, it appears that GMC has updated the YouTube link to show that it applies to the '15 as well (which it should since it is the same as the '14).

That answers it then. I just saw that ad on tv last night. They are currently distancing themselves from aluminum. Ford says aircraft grade aluminum and GM says submarine grade steel. You get a choice of sinking to the bottom of the ocean or flying above the clouds. Opposite marketing games at work.

 

[ray66v]

What exactly did the Forbes article confirm for you? To me it showed a high repair bill to repair and aluminum panel. The big unanswered question remains....how much more does it cost vs the outgoing steel panel?

If by "it" you mean how much more does it cost to repair and or replace, than the steel panel?

I can answer that. Based on my experiences repairing aluminum hoods, and hatches, and aluminum Grumman vehicles. And, based on what I saw when the company that acquired our body shop, set up a facility to repair all aluminum cars, it's pretty close to double the cost, to repair or replace, with steel vs. aluminum.

This is partially because an aluminum panel, is less often repairable than a steel one. And, when they are replaced, they cost more than a steel one.

Often, what would be considered an moderately easy repair, on a steel panel, is scrap, if it is an aluminum panel.

There is no doubt, the repair costs will be higher. And, so will the insurance costs. But, insurance company's will not immediately rate the new F150's to reflect all that. They don't get together and set prices, so even if they want to double the cost of premiums on the new F150, they won't. Because, they will be afraid the other company's won't follow along, and they will lose customers. The rates will eventually creep up over time.

In the past, when a vehicle has a high repair cost, during many long discussion with insurance agents I worked with, I learned, the insurance company's only make the owners of those vehicles pay part of those higher costs, in the form of higher rates. They spread the rest out, among all the policy holders.

So, as aluminum use is increased, we will all see increases in insurance costs. Because, even if you are not driving an aluminum vehicle, you may in fact, run into one.

The technology to build aluminum vehicles is not new. And, they could have done so, a long time ago, if the manufacturers would have thought it was worth doing. Which leads me to believe this is only happening, because of the government forcing them to increase fuel mileage.