Any news on gas engine CUTS?

[GManBart]

CUT are operated in light duty service compared to field tractors. Also they are used for much fewer hours per years than a primary field tractor.

That is your opinion....not a fact. Just because a SCUT or CUT doesn't run as many hours per day, week, or month doesn't make it a light duty cycle as you're suggesting. The duty cycle is the percentage of rated power that is normally used...actually, the percentage of time the engine can be run at 100% before it needs to be given a break. Further, the true determination of light duty versus heavy duty refers to automobiles, not tractors. The EPA tests all tractors with the same duty cycle standards.

 

[buickanddeere]

Body is rusted through most vehicles before they travel 1/3 to 1/2 that distance.
Gas engines making 300,000 miles is common and unremarkable.
For the cost of one set of injectors in that diesel. An entire complete brand new long block can be installed in the gas vehicle.

 

[GManBart]

Don't know where you dreamed up 20%. The Dodge diesel costs $1500 more in fuel over five years to drive the same distance as the gas trucks.

I didn't dream it up, it was the result from the comparison of the three trucks in question. You could have answered your own question by reading the facts as they were posted in the article.

As always, you try putting actual dollars on some fictional 5 year timeframe, using a fixed, fictional price for gas and diesel that simply doesn't exist. The price of the two fuels will vary regionally, and over time, so your numbers are just a guess.

When the price of diesel drops here, the way it has in all of the rest of the world following ULSD implementation, even you won't be able to find a way to twist the math in favor of the gasser.

 

[GManBart]

Gas here is 2.09 and Diesel is 2.79.

Using highway mileage,
It would take 45.5 gallons to drive the Ford 1,000 miles 45.5x2.09=$95.09
It would take 35.7 gallons to drive the Ram 1,000 miles 35.7x2.79=$99.60

How do you think that will hold up when you put an equal trailer behind both of them?

I don't dispute the price difference between gas and diesel is significant right now, but there are reasons for that....ULSD implementation costs, lower supply, and rising demand for diesel all have kept the price high. They are starting to pay off the ULSD costs, and the supply is closing on the demand. Those three things will change, and there's no reason to believe the U.S. won't follow the model that we've seen in the rest of the world, or close enough to make the price gap so close gassers won't be able to compete.

 

[hutchman]

Why are so persistent in ignoring the light duty aspect of the topic. How can you even comment when you have no clue what is discussed? The light duty and HD applications have been discussed at length. What part of plain english do you not understand?

The OP was about GDI tractors which there are none. So then you start comparing trucks, cars, chainsaws, boats, ATV's (I probably missed some) to diesel engines and set up this Tier IV - light vs heavy straw man and started beating it and anyone with a different opinion with colorful comments about bubba, and country bumbkin talk like we're all idiots.

I simply provided a healthy dose of reality to the points you tried to make. You refuse to consider economy of pre-2007 diesel's as if they don't exist anymore and want to compare everything to Tier IV only. If someone brings up a pre-2007 or pre Tier IV engine you claim it's 50yr. old technology. And you refuse to acknowledge GDI's will be more complex/expensive once PM specs hit it in 2017. You even posted slides that show how wildly complex (much more than a Tier IV diesel) things are headed.

Even my last matchup of the GDI to the pre-2007 TDI isn't a fair fight because my diesel's have EGR and EGR Cooler so I already have some PM equipment and still blow the doors off a GDI without it. If you compare the previous Mk III/A3 TDI to today's GDI it gets its butt kicked even worse because the TDI's during that era (pre 1999.5) got the best MPG because they had even less emission stuff on them.

Your whole argument centered around comparing economy of GDI's (of which two or more of the companies are being sued for false MPG claims not matching real world driving MPG's) to Tier IV diesel's and your argument totally fell apart if pre-2007 diesel's were considered ... all the while ignoring the fact there are no PM standards for gasoline at the moment but they are coming.

Diesel is best suited for tractors today due to all manner of reasons that have been beat to death here ... economy, torque, long term fuel storage stability, safety etc., etc. and the MARKET bears that out.

 

[Loadstar]

I have yet to see a scut or cut worked harder than a factory forktruck.

 

[hutchman]

Gas here is 2.09 and Diesel is 2.79.

Using highway mileage,
It would take 45.5 gallons to drive the Ford 1,000 miles 45.5x2.09=$95.09
It would take 35.7 gallons to drive the Ram 1,000 miles 35.7x2.79=$99.60



I didn't think about Ventrac. I can't find any fuel consumption chart for the Kawasaki they use. I did find a good comparison between a gas and diesel ZTR, post 6.
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=233804

Yea, I can't justify a diesel pickup truck on MPG alone. If I had to tow something really heavy it would make sense but pickup trucks just don't have enough gain in MPG to overcome the higher cost of the fuel.

 

[MHarryE]

Refiners say that ULSD now costs about 10 cents more to refine than the previous diesel. Fuel on which road tax is paid adds another 6 cents per gallon, the diesel fuel tax vs the gasoline fuel tax. Since North America is so highly gasoline dependent the refiners are optimized to get the most gasoline out of each crude oil barrel. Then comes supply and demand - oil companies run a higher profit margin on diesel because they can.

 

[hutchman]

Body is rusted through most vehicles before they travel 1/3 to 1/2 that distance.
Gas engines making 300,000 miles is common and unremarkable.
For the cost of one set of injectors in that diesel. An entire complete brand new long block can be installed in the gas vehicle.

Don't know who you are addressing but I replaced my injectors when I did the performance mods I mentioned a while back and I only remember them being several hundred dollars. Again, unless you've been under a rock, new gas injectors and pumps are made out of special material to resist the corrosion caused by Ethanol wrecking fuel systems. AKA=not cheap to replace!

 

[hutchman]

Refiners say that ULSD now costs about 10 cents more to refine than the previous diesel. Fuel on which road tax is paid adds another 6 cents per gallon, the diesel fuel tax vs the gasoline fuel tax. Since North America is so highly gasoline dependent the refiners are optimized to get the most gasoline out of each crude oil barrel. Then comes supply and demand - oil companies run a higher profit margin on diesel because they can.

... and since we haven't allowed a refinery to be built here since who knows when ... there is only so much capacity to make all the things (home heating oil, Kerosene, D1, D2 etc.) that come off that same distillation layer.