Traction Using a Tractor on Mountain Property

GirlWhoWantsTractor · Apr 25, 2015

Hi Folks, and thanks for the great forum.

Have 16 acres of mountain land, mostly wooded, with grades ranging from around 10% around the house all the way up to steep ravines where no machine will go, and everything in between. Have beat my Husqvarna lawn tractor (and myself) about to death trying to do various projects and figured I need a tractor. I mean, if the Huskvee can get around pretty well except for getting stuck about every 15 minutes, then a real tractor should do it better, right? Got it pretty much picked out and everything.

Here's the problem: All the tractor videos I've seen show flat or gently rolling land, and when I search "steep" "hilly" "ditch" "ravine" on TBN, all I get is roll-over stories! Sat on a few SCUTs, and yep, yer pretty high up compared with a lawn tractor....

So....do any of you actually work steep, rough terrain with your tractors? Are some tractors better than others for this specific need? Which ones have the lowest center of gravity? Does ballasting the tires help? Any other tips? Or is a tractor just the wrong machine for the job?

TYVM

jix · Apr 25, 2015

I would bet on a crawler type tractor, depending on what you want to do with the land.

vtsnowedin · Apr 25, 2015

There are of course limits to everything. But with a well set up 4WD tractor and ballast in the tires you can access a lot of hilly ground and at least get within a cables reach of a lot more of it. I have mine set to the widest rear tire position plus have 4.1 inch spacers and "Rimguard" tm in the rears. I still keep the ROPS up with canopy on for small falling limb protection and try to think before I go. I'll post a picture or two showing the set up when I get back to my home computer.

GirlWhoWantsTractor · Apr 25, 2015

jix said:
I would bet on a crawler type tractor, depending on what you want to do with the land.

No tracks please. Have had guys out 4 or 5 times to do some really big jobs (new ponds, new road, new driveway and parking area) and spent weeks fixing the ruts and gouges left behind by those tracks, plus replanting grass. We had a small skidsteer out here recently and it couldn't negotiate any of the tighter areas. Plus more big gouges in the lawn. Arghhh!

GirlWhoWantsTractor · Apr 25, 2015

vtsnowedin said:
There are of course limits to everything. But with a well set up 4WD tractor and ballast in the tires you can access a lot of hilly ground and at least get within a cables reach of a lot more of it. I have mine set to the widest rear tire position plus have 4.1 inch spacers and "Rimguard" tm in the rears. I still keep the ROPS up with canopy on for small falling limb protection and try to think before I go. I'll post a picture or two showing the set up when I get back to my home computer.

Thank you. I look forward to the pictures.

I guess my real question is: Is a "well set up" SCUT more of a rollover risk than a lawn tractor?

If so, maybe I'd be better off with a larger, more powerful 4WD lawn tractor since I know the lawn tractor can at least negotiate the terrain w/o flipping over. The problems are getting stuck on hills (2WD and small tires), getting stuck due to jamming the mower deck on something, and just plain getting stuck in the mud. Plus the lack of real ground engaging attachments, inability to move dirt, dig, drag trees, pull carts full of rocks, or do any serious grading.....

Sysop · Apr 25, 2015

My opinion, the more weight you have under you the better. 200# man setting atop a 2000# machine is at more risk of rollover than a 200# machine setting atop a 6000# machine. You want width for stability, weight for traction, and a low center of gravity.

I also recommend HST for extreme hills too. They're generally a good bit heavier than their gear counterparts and that weight is built low in the machine so helps the center of gravity. HSTs also allow for slower/smoother movements and don't jerk around or freewheel when power is suddenly cut from the drivetrain. Most people's nerves prevent them from operating a clutch as smoothly when they're on three wheels teetering at the top of a long steep grade, and even the best of tractor brakes leave something to be desired on extreme hills...

When filling the tires, don't go over 60-65% full, it keeps the weight in the bottom part of the tire, keeping the center of gravity lower. Filling above the axle line doesn't lower the center of gravity nearly as much, it only adds weight. Filling above the top of the rim will lower the center of gravity.

Lots of folk will try to sell you on a loader, which is a nice tool to have, but they suck on extreme hills. Get a set of front suitcase weights so you can remove the loader, they keep all the weight at the centerline of the tractor which increases sideways stability. You have to keep a loader bucket low to the ground or it affects stability on mostly flat ground. On a hill this is amplified. The large upright masts the loaders mount to are holding the weight of the loader above the front wheels and it doesn't have to be up very far before it acts as a lever trying to pry the tractor over onto it's side... Keeping it low on extreme terrain is a constant exercise. It must be raised to start up a grade so it doesn't dig in, it must be lowered as you climb and crest a grade to keep the front tires well planted. On uneven side slopes it's not so bad, but on my land as the slopes change direction the corners of the bucket can drag if keeping it too low. Suitcase weights eliminate all of that...

Right now my dog can't make it up our hill due to the mud or I'd take some pics for ya... All I can tell ya for now is we have hills and we use tractors!

For the most extreme of hills I'd advise constructing a roll cage for the tractor. It is quite common here to see the entire tractor caged.

/pine · Apr 25, 2015

You might consider renting a tractor that is similar to what you are thinking about to get a feel for the comfort level...You will not want to be operating a machine that is constantly inducing the (excuse the term) "pucker factor"...!

I don't think you mentioned a front end loader...this adds a whole other factor when it comes to center of gravity and for the most part contributes to a lot of rollovers...

I operate a 4wd b-series (FEL, loaded rears) in mountainous terrain... you have to always address steep grades vertically...always remain in 4wd when ascending/descending...most importantly you have to go slow and stay focused...

Good luck...

smstonypoint · Apr 25, 2015

I don't own one, but I have seen Ventracs operating on slopes that would scare the "you know what" out of me if I was using a regular tractor.

Ventrac Compact Tractors & Attachments

Steve

GirlWhoWantsTractor · Apr 25, 2015

smstonypoint said:
I don't own one, but I have seen Ventracs operating on slopes that would scare the "you know what" out of me if I was using a regular tractor.

Ventrac Compact Tractors & Attachments

Steve

Wow. That's exactly what I was picturing in my mind if I could design a better machine for this terrain. Will be checking this out carefully. Thank you.

GirlWhoWantsTractor · Apr 25, 2015

/pine said:
You might consider renting a tractor that is similar to what you are thinking about to get a feel for the comfort level...You will not want to be operating a machine that is constantly inducing the (excuse the term) "pucker factor"...!

I don't think you mentioned a front end loader...this adds a whole other factor when it comes to center of gravity and for the most part contributes to a lot of rollovers...

I operate a 4wd b-series (FEL, loaded rears) in mountainous terrain... you have to always address steep grades vertically...always remain in 4wd when ascending/descending...most importantly you have to go slow and stay focused...

Good luck...

Of course a FEL and BH; otherwise no point. Good tips. I'm already pretty familiar with the pucker factor, and I always go slow and stay focused, yessir. (Right up until the moment I get stuck, that is. Then I step off and Jay and me push it out.)

All the rentals around here are old tractors; not sure they would be a good test?

vtsnowedin · Apr 25, 2015

A SCUT can be more of a roll over hazard then a lawn tractor because some of them are quite narrow and have no provision for adjusting the tread width and even discourage the use of spacers. You would need to compare the two machines as set up to get a firm answer.

A loader can actually be an asset when climbing hills if it is held low while moving. the weight out front holds the front wheels down when climbing up a steep grade. Just don't put a full bucket way up in the air and make a sharp turn on a slope.

Sysop · Apr 25, 2015

Knowing the wheelbase (width and length) and the weight of the machine you are testing would give you a general idea of how similar machines would handle. If the tires are loaded with liquid also makes a huge difference in the feel of the machine...

vtsnowedin · Apr 25, 2015

Here is a useful publication you should read before you make a decision on what tractor to buy.
http://agsafety.tamu.edu/files/2011/06/SAFE-TRACTOR-OPERATION-ROLLOVER1.pdf

prs · Apr 25, 2015

Ventrac, Steiner, Power Track are made for our kind of land. But, I have previously done my work with a Gravely and a John Deere 650. The 650 is no longer made and there has been no replacement that is as capable on steep land given the belly mower and ballasted big fiat Pillow-Dia tires.

I recently purchased a Ventrac with duals and the 7' contour mower. I does well, the mower is a bit on the heavy side and if you are mostly wooded, get one of the more traditional type mowers. I have been on 30+ degree slopes the Ventrac is stable, but can slide due to wet spring ground. Watch the videos and check out the Ventrac site here on TBN.

Now, if you find your amount of mowing work is less than what a Ventrac justifies, sub compact utility tractors with belly mowers are pretty capable too; such as the BX type from Kubota.

prs

budepps3760 · Apr 25, 2015

beautiful land

nc redneck · Apr 25, 2015

prs said:
Ventrac, Steiner, Power Track are made for our kind of land. But, I have previously done my work with a Gravely and a John Deere 650. The 650 is no longer made and there has been no replacement that is as capable on steep land given the belly mower and ballasted big fiat Pillow-Dia tires.

I recently purchased a Ventrac with duals and the 7' contour mower. I does well, the mower is a bit on the heavy side and if you are mostly wooded, get one of the more traditional type mowers. I have been on 30+ degree slopes the Ventrac is stable, but can slide due to wet spring ground. Watch the videos and check out the Ventrac site here on TBN.

Now, if you find your amount of mowing work is less than what a Ventrac justifies, sub compact utility tractors with belly mowers are pretty capable too; such as the BX type from Kubota.

prs

A BX would be worth looking at if it will do what you want. One with loader removed and weighed tires is very stable on hills. 4 wheel drive will it mow places a 0 turn can not go. Not sure I would want to cross steep slopes with loader and backhoe on it. It is light with just mower and will not leave any ruts even when wet.

GirlWhoWantsTractor · Apr 25, 2015

Ventrac is impressive mowing on hills, no BH. Power Track can also dig (BH). I see both are more expensive than a SCUT. Was looking at Mahindra Max 22-25, maybe EMax, as they seemed to have a wider/longer stance plus more weight than say the Kubota = more stability at least in theory.

To give ya'll better idea of what I need to do:

Level & maintain a 300-yd-long gravel drive on a 10% slope--after every big rain.
Crown, ditch, and either plant or gravel, not to mention maintain, a new 300-yd-long new road that snakes down the mountain to the 2 new ponds (grade 15-25%)
Clear branches, leaves, debris and maintain series of paths/trails around the ponds (grade pretty flat once you're down there)
Create new paths/trails for better access all over property, including smoothing out grades, removing lots of deadwood, big rocks, etc.
Still finishing up smoothing out the big mess left by the machinery for the new ponds; major removal of gouges, piles of dirt, and boulders and big roots that were exposed by the digging, and fine grading for better drainage, not to mention finish getting quick grass planted to avoid erosion.
Remove the huge piles of rocks/gravel created when we dug out the springs to create the creek running to the new ponds.
Buck and drag at least a dozen remaining trees we pulled out. Big ones.
Clear out and move tons and tons of deadwood down in the other two ravines.
Create a navigable trail though same.
Improve/maintain the dams at the head of the ravines to control storm runoff.
Level and work a much larger garden.
Oh, and mowing, which is the least of our problems. Don't really have to bush-hog as all property is now either mowed or woods.

blucoondawg · Apr 25, 2015

I would go with a tractor over that ventrac. If you are going with a sub compact I would go as large as you can, personally I would go with a compact instead as a heavier machine will probably make life easier with some of these tasks. The slopes you are describing are not super steep, as long as care is taken to not drive sideways on a hill with a load held high I wouldn't worry about it, I operate equipment for a living and we commonly have to get on hillsides steeper than this with a rubber tire backhoe which is very top heavy, they can handle a surprising amount of slope but care must be taken because a wrong move can make a huge difference

vtsnowedin · Apr 25, 2015

Sounds like you have a great project in front of you. I'd be using some of those rocks you need to move to armor the bottom of your road side ditches so they stop washing out. First priority though is to get some rye growing on all the disturbed soil to stop erosion until you can get to it. You should do that before you go tractor shopping, don't worry about prepping the soil just sow some seed by hand or with one of those shoulder bag spinners. A couple of spring rains and it will come up.

cartod · Apr 25, 2015

Just buy a tractor and get to know it. I really like the old ones better for there look and low stance If you want to run in those steep ravines you speak of get a horse. :laughing: I'm here in WV and have the same topography. 4wd and common sense will keep you alive.

You can get the 4wd's stuck too! Easily.